Are Today's Kids Damaged?

There are so many reasons, most of which you’ve touched on. In part, in my opinion, it’s the adults. Now and then I watch that “Nanny” show, and it’s never the kids (fault). In most cases, the parents aren’t being the adults, they are letting the kids rule. When we were kids, parents were more separate from kids, we were part of their world, not their entire world. And, in my opinion again, that was healthier. There is nothing wrong with telling kids to do something, just because. If they don’t, remove a privilege. All of the “stuff” kids have, they see as their rights and many kids are very spoiled. They go to school, and when teachers try to discipline or give a (deserved) “bad” grade, the parents scream. School was once were kids went; it was their place, and their parents came in when they were supposed to, helped out on special party days, and enforced homework. They did not do their kids homework or hover around every little part of school. They had expectations. If you got in trouble at school, you were also in trouble at home. Today, parents are very free about what they say around the kids, fostering a complete disrespect for teachers. It’s fine (and good) to defend your child, but every little thing should not be discussed in front of them.
Very few kids spend afternoons outside in the fresh air, they are inside in front of one screen or another. I drive to work everyday and see lines of cars either at bus stops or driving into the school driveway. Walk to the bus stop! If you’re afraid to send your kid to it, take turns with other parents walking with them. Let’s turn back time, at least 30 or 40 years, just for a year and see what happens;)

It’s interesting listening to men, particularly, in their 60’s and 70’s, talking about their childhoods. Few were supervised much at all: they ran out the door after school and reappeared at dinner time.

In between, at least according to the guys I’ve met, they did all kinds of things that today would be considered completely unacceptable and/or inappropriate. Everything from finding and blowing up gun powder to petty shop lifting to dangerous and risky climbing, experimenting, etc.

Don’t know if that was “better” — but it certainly was different. As Michele suggests, today’s parents have their kids under supervision 24/7 — giving them a very full and complete view of what it means to be a kid.

Meanwhile, it’s the very same older adults who are criticizing today’s kids and parents who were out there blowing up old sheds and generally doing exactly what they felt like during “off” hours. Perhaps they were more brushed and dressed up and polite with their elders — but by and large, were they really “better behaved??”

Lisa

“Are we finally providing kids with the medications and therapies they need, or, in some cases, are we giving diagnoses to kids strictly because their behaviours don’t fit a too-narrow expectation?”

Those questions should be addressed to medical professionals.

Parents don’t prescribing medications for their children. Medical professionals (medical doctors, general practitioners, etc) do.

Parents don’t diagnose children for mental condition. Medical professionals do.

There is no any ground to make the parents responsible for diagnosis and for providing children with medication.

When I was a kid my mother let us wander off for a whole day at a time with some sandwiches and an apple. We were largely left alone,however there was very little television so we had to find things to do.

Luke, when I ask are “we” doing this or that, I’m referring to our society as a whole – not to parents alone.

To be honest, though, I do believe that trends in medicine are driven, at least in part, by the expectations and preferences of the larger community – and not strictly by science.

It’s not uncommon, for example, for a person to be sent away from the physician’s office with antibiotics to treat a virus – even though the physician knows full well that antibiotics won’t cure a virus.

The reasons, at least in part: the physician also knows that the patient expects and wants to be treated, and that the patient’s expectation that the medicine will work can have a positive effect on his health.

In other words, the doctor’s decisions are driven by the patient as well as by his training and/or research.

In the case of kids with autism, the “patient” isn’t just the child, it’s also the parent. And I’m absolutely certain that professionals respond to parents at the same time that they’re responding to the child. In fact, some of the actual tests for autism and ADHD are questionnaires administered to the parents, asking for their observations and insights.

Lisa

I am endowed with Asperger’s Syndrome. I cannot pretend to exactly understand how the neurotypical mind works, though I can make logical assumptions…

We no longer physically discipline our children, so what little discipline there is, is a “mind game”, some kind of play on guilt and peer pressure.

If our only discipline is oral mind games, how does this punishment technique affect a bully, who takes pleasure in hurting others?

If our only discipline is guilt trips, to make people feel bad about their actions, how does this affect suicide rates?

If our only discipline is guilt trip and peer pressure, how does this affect an autist, who does not ever consider the emotions and and perspective of others?

If our only discipline is guilt trips and peer pressure, how does this affect the more sophisticated Aspie, who has learned that neurotypical people have emotions, and that these emotions can be manipulated for entertainment and profit?

If discipline of guilt trips and peer pressure doesn’t work, and is escalated to denying privileges, how does a parent deal with the child who simply refuses to be denied privileges, just takes them anyway, and retaliates with property damage if the parent makes the mistake of trying to deny privileges again?

Has anyone done any serious comparisons of crime and mental health, say between a strict society which still encourages physical discipline, and the other extreme, say Sweden where teenage violent crime rose six-fold after physical discipline was made illegal?

Has it occurred to anyone that there is something of a huge sampling bias when someone says, “Well, I did all sorts of things considered ‘dangerous’ as a kid and I didn’t get killed.”?

Today’s kids are very damaged. From my point of view the question is how much already knew the manufacturers about this.

In 2008 it was published a very interesting study ( I never understood WHY parents & their lawyers never used this study in the court ). This study is here “Massive peptide sharing between viral and human proteomes.” . There are info about mumps, measles, hep B , HPV16, HPV-1 (human poliovirus 1) and many other viruses. And the study was done only for 30 viruses!!

“almost 90% of the viral pentamer peptides are widely, intensively and repeatedly scattered throughout the human proteome.”

“In the present case, the molecular mimicry hypothesis implies that viral infections should be a practically infinite source of autoimmunity diseases since this study demonstrates that viral 5-mer matches are disseminated throughout practically all the human proteomeand each viral matchis repeated almostmore than 10 times (seeTable 4).Consequently, autoimmune diseases should theoretically approach a 100% real incidence, since the 30 viruses we examined practically aremore or less disseminated throughout the entire human species.”

And I do believe that we talk about 100% real incidence of autoimmune disease after vaccination. It is just a matter of time about WHEN the effects will be visible. And it is about individual’s particularity about WHERE the autoimmune disease is first visible. IF someone would make several tests among kids that were never vaccinated and among those vaccinated, I think they will find a huge difference at auto-antibodies level.

Then, there are studies that show the involvement of certain peptides in several autoimmune diseases!

The second study, very interesting, it’s a study that was published in Aug 2009 : “Penta- and hexapeptide sharing between HPV16 and Homo sapiens proteomes”

“Analysis of the quantitative results reported in Table 1 and the qualitative data exposed in Table 2 indicate that the logical consequence
of cross-reactions following anti-HPV vaccine administration may be possibly represented by alterations in epithelial cell proliferation (Olsen et al., 1989), obesity and subnormal rate of growth (Goddard et al., 1995); Alzheimer’s disease (Rademakers et al., 2004); increased atherogenic potential (Dong et al., 2006); bone disorders; sensorineural deafness; ocular disorders including juvenile cataract, myopia, strabismus, retinal
degeneration and detachment, and chronic uveitis (Annunen et al., 1999); alteration of differentiation, proliferation and apoptosis (Sugaya et al., 1997); alterations in myeloid cell nuclear differrentiation (Briggs et al., 1992); alteration in brain-specific regulation of cell proliferation (Xe et al., 1989), to cite only a few. “

My mother said my aggressive Aspergers daughter age 7 acts just her brother did back in the early fifties. My grandparents were at their wits end and went down and enlisted him in the army at age 17 to get some “discipline” in him. My mom said when he came back he was different. But did not take well to the “discipline” he had to take.
Autism has always been around, we notice it more now due to the fact the population size has practically doubled since the baby boomer fifties.

haha, Jon — that’s funny.

Reminds me of a kid at my elementary school who wrote an exciting story in first person narrative about a guy getting trapped in quicksand and trying to get out, having various close calls, and finally ending, “And then, I died.” Haven’t read any comments like that, so I guess you’re right — sampling bias!

NB, I think what you are saying has merit, and yes it would be interesting to test those unvaccinated for signs of autoimmune disease, and for various other possible “ills” suggested by exposure to vaccine contents. Why hasn’t there been a study of any kind comparing the vaccinated against the unvaccinated? It’s the issue that has confounded so many for so long, one has to wonder what has kept this from happening.
With a google search for example, “vaccines/ autism”, a listing will pop up referencing many studies and articles with the words, “autism not caused by vaccines”, with a closer look, the studies cover only two issues, mmr and thimerosal. We need to look deeper, there are myriad questions that need to be addressed, “effects of vaccines on immune function”, the illnesses (such as ear infections) that suggest vaccines cause a temporary t cell suppression, the use of so many antibiotics for these illnesses that “do” occur after shots, the use of antipyretics following shots, there are so many, many variables that could come into play following shots that “could” eventually bring about the autoimmune diseases that are rampant . Yes, NB, I believe your 100% could be a correct number.
There was a study, following children given a type of mmr. For five years these children were studied, they died at an alarming rate during that five years from illnesses not linked to the mmr. There was a conclusion, that particular shot contained an ingredient that instilled in these victims an aquired immune deficiency and made them vulnerable to opportunistic infections . When I told my pediatrician that I did NOT want to start the cycle of ear infections that I had with two of mine after mmr, she said she had never heard of such a thing. We walked into her office where she took a book off of the shelf to look up side effects, and sure enough there it was, she said, “I never knew this”. What did they have to do to fix this? They started introducing shots for all of the infections that were rare before vaccinations in healthy children, yes, they added to the regimen prevnar, meningitis, hib, etc. Now, sadly, staph has filled in the blank, and children have more serious pneumonias than the common ones they were vaccinated for. Microbes find a way in weakened immune systems. What is autism and can vaccine ever be the “smoking gun”? Not with the cursory look that it’s been given, this look seems bought and paid for, JMO.

Hi Barbaraj,

You asked:” Why hasn’t there been a study of any kind comparing the vaccinated against the unvaccinated?”

The answer is, vaccinated vs 100% totally unvaccinated has been studies. There was no difference in risk for the totally unvaccinated kids vs vaccinated kids. This data is ten years old.

So the real question then is why do so many people keep deigning the existence of this data?

W&N

Hi NB,

Thanks for the references.

Could you please clarify, which court, which cases, and how you think these studies should have been used to support the parent’s cases?

Thanks,
W&N

Thanks W&N , can you direct me toward those studies, I would love to take a look!

I found this interesting….

perhaps to some degree all are affected..?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2270714/pdf/CDI-11-165.pdf

@ W&N

1. I never found such a study as you mentioned, I mean vaccinated kids versus non vaccinated kids ( really never vaccinated). Pls provide a link to such a study. As I know, such a study was NEVER done despite the fact that several organisations requested it. They never done such a study not even for influenza vaccine. And even Jefferson (Cochrane Institute) said the same: we need studies, real studies to asses the efficacy of the vaccine in vaccinated people versus non vaccinated EVER, so versus saline placebo! The current methodology is to compare a vaccine with another vaccine.

@Barbaraj
As I know, only one demo study attempted to demonstrate that there are big differences between diseases incidence rate among vaccinated vs non vaccinated kids. I’m talking about the study done by Generation Rescue http://www.generationrescue.org/survey.html The aim was to show that such a study can be done and there are differences that should be investigated (among vaccinated and not-vaccinated kids). The problem, I think, is that these difference are very big; once you have such a comparative study, the “mantra” – “the benefits are higher then risks”- just vanishes and the entire vaccination industry will collapse. Of course, this will implicate a paradigm shift regarding real immunity and the impact could touch other areas of drug industry. We talk about hundreds of billions of dollars every year income that will be lost by pharma industry. And entire generations of doctors that have to reset their brains and knowledge in order to learn about real immunity.

There an issue that scares the majority of parents and is neglected by 99.9999% of doctors. Big fat statistics! Those scary figures showing X number of unvaccinated persons got ill because of Y virus, and the vaccine saved thousands of lives bla bla. How they lie with these numbers? It’s pretty simple; they perverted the meaning of science, from discovering and never ending questioning to Nature’s truth, unquestionable!! There are 2 “mantras” well implemented in our brains: if something is it written in a study, then it is the ultimate truth, and the state / authorities never lie. Hmm… read here about how numbers, statistics, studies, references can be used to lie: http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/2008/07/28/where-do-they-find-these-scary-statistics-part-ii/ and read the comments, too Then it is clear WHY the internet is so dangerous It gives the possibility to access rapidly all kind of data, to compare and see the lies.

@ W&N
2. “Could you please clarify, which court, which cases, and how you think these studies should have been used to support the parent’s cases?”

The study shows the overlapping peptides for several viruses, including measles, rubella, polio (HPV-1), HPV-16 (human papilloma virus), hep B virus. It is necessary to get the data for each virus ( the way it was done in the second study for HPV-16 ) , and to list all penta and hexa etc peptides that are common between the virus and the human proteom ( viral sequence, position in the viral protein, accession number of the human protein hosting the viral sequence ). Then we have studies like this one – “Human laminin: cloning and sequence analysis of cDNAs encoding A, B1 and B2 chains, and expression of the corresponding genes in human skin and cultured cells” Olsen et al, 1989 – where it is clear that positive regulation of epithelial cell proliferation ir influenced by LAMA1 (laminin subunit alpha-1). It’s only about putting together what is already discovered: identify overlapping peptides + the role of those peptides = post vaccination disease. Or a study like this one “Expression of a large family of POU domain regulatory genes in mammalian brain development” (Xe X, Treacy MN, Simmons DM, Ingraham HA, Swanson LW, Rosenfeld MG (1989).

“The overlapping extent (in terms of percentage of unique viral 5-mers which occur in the human proteome, see column 6 in Table 4) is rarely less than 90%. That means that almost 90% of the viral pentamer peptides are widely, intensively and repeatedly scattered throughout the human proteome. Numerically, the viral versus human overlap is defined by 2,907,096 total matches. Also the viral overlapping distribution in the human proteome (as number of human proteins hosting viral 5-mers, column 5 in Table 4) is highest, being close to 100% with HHV-5 (i.e. HHV-5 pentamers are present in 35,708 human proteins out of the 36,103 ones which comprehensively form the human proteome). Given the ample literature documentation and research data in support of the critical role exerted by pentapeptide modules in cell biology as well in antigen/antibody immunorecognition ([17], and Refs. therein), the data of Table 4 are impressive. They become even more significant, if possible, when compared to the control data obtained for inter-human pentapeptide overlapping illustrated in Table 5. ”

I talked to an immunologist about these studies and he said “NOOOO, this cannot be true” Then he calmed down and served me this “evidence”: “not all people develop post vaccination autoimmune diseases”. And he considered this to be the ultimate evidence that vaccines are not implicated in autoimmune diseases. In my opinion, the fact that for several years some people don’t have symptoms linked to the autoimmune disasters caused by vaccines shows only that we have internal mechanism aiming to correct an “over reacting immune system”, and this “auto correction mechanism” works for some, and doesn’t work for others. So, the fact that this self -correction mechanism stopped working shows that we managed to destroy it! And the increasing number of people without this self-regulatory system shows that we are on the wrong track.

PS sorry for my mistakes, English is not my native language.

I find it interesting to read all the comments and see how each one defines “damaged” differently, along with the longings expressed to roll back the clock 30 or 40 years.

Society is constantly changing and I do think that larger and larger segments of people in society are finding it increasingly difficult to adapt to those changes. We keep bantering around looking for specific causes (not that this is a bad thing); but the weight of the whole can’t be ignored either.

All of us are being exposed to social changes (e.g. due to population growth, urbanization, etc.); industrial changes (e.g. due to environmental pollution and possibly the resulting climate changes causing pressure to dramatically change our industrial practices); economic changes (e.g. due to shifting patterns of wealth and poverty on a global basis); or even medical changes (e.g. due to vaccines or due to the general availability of wide ranges of both illicit and legal drugs along with the growing expectations of people in general that pills and shots can cure just about anything and everything).

No one is left completely undamaged, so I think we have to be careful in defining the “norms” we use when studying things like social behavior. If developing “normal” street smarts means becoming a compulsive perscription drug user or even dabbling in petty thievery, then I would certainly prefer my son to remain just as he is regardless of whether or not the rest of society considers him to be somehow uniquely “damaged.”

As for the rest of us, unfortunately, we can’t just turn back the clock; but I’m an optimist anyway. I think humanity will eventually adapt and find better ways for all of us to get along; and in some form of future social studies class the students will probably be analyzing the changes occuring today in the same way we’ve grown up analyzing the Industrial Revolution.

W&N

Hi Barbaraj,

I very much respect the open-mindedness of your reply.

Here is a link:
http://www.autismhelpforyou.com/HG%20IN%20VACCINES%20-%20Simpsonwood%20-%20Internet%20File.pdf

to discussion of a study that compared 100% unvaccinated kids with vaccinated.

It is very long and much of the text isn’t relevant to your question.

If you focus on the area between pages ~30 and ~50 you will learn that the study looked at ~110,000 US kids (page 34 of PDF).

The “unvaccinated” kids got zero vaccines (see page 35 of PDF, discussed further in other parts).

The discussion on autism is on page 44 of the PDF—since nothing was found it is pretty limited:

“This is the result for autism, in which we don’t see much of a trend except for a slight, but not significant, increase for the highest exposure. The overall test for trend is statistically not significant.”

Please be very clear about this. With a sample size of 110,000 there is strong statistic power.

And there was no significant difference in risk for autism in unvaccinated kids compared to kids that were vaccinated.

This is from June 2000.

W&N

Hi NB,

Please don’t worry; I don’t think there are any language issues here.

Thank you for the long reply, but I don’t think you answered my questions. Which court cases should these studies have been used and why?

If you believe these studies support the idea that vaccines cause autoimmune diseases, I think you should go back and take another look. For example, please pay attention to how many amino acids long the overlapping peptides are and low long they need to be in order to form an antigen.

The issue with the internet is anyone can write just about anything—but they may or may not be honest or even knowledgeable about what they write.

Using google or pubmed (searchable database of scientific publications) you can find articles on the correct ways to do “real” studies on vaccines. You can also find many studies like you requested. For example using saline placebo.

Here is the first hit I got from pubmed searching for “vaccine saline placebo”:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20006142?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=2

“In this observer-blind, placebo-controlled clinical study, 500 healthy adults 18-49 years of age were randomized to receive two intramuscular doses of A/Vietnam/1194/2004 A/H5N1 vaccine (5microg, 15microg or 45microg) or placebo (saline) 21 days apart.”

You will also learn that sites that claim the current methodology is to only compare one vaccine to another are not telling the truth.

You referred us to the Generation Rescue survey. Instead of reading their words, please look at their actual data. It can be found here:
http://www.generationrescue.org/pdf/survey.html

Please look at page 3 (All children) data. 4% of unvaccinated kids had an ADS while only 3% of vaccinated kids had an ASD.

Please read the numbers again. In the Generation Rescue data unvaccinated kids had a higher risk of ASD compared to vaccinated kids.

This is not surprising since their method was so poor their data is meaningless. I don’t think they are lying, they just don’t know how to generate valid data.

Similarly, I don’t think the insidevaccines site you referred us to was written by liars. Again this is a site writing about epidemiology by people that don’t understand the subject. Of course they make errors. They are simply ignorant.

Bottom line is both Generation Rescue and Insidevaccines simply do the analysis incorrectly and thus come to incorrect conclusions.

W&N

Please see my reply about for data/link on 100% unvaccinated kids

WOW White&Nerdy, thank you so much for that link. I believe each of us should copy and paste and take it to our attorneys. I’m sure others have read it before, I had not, and I am nothing short of stunned. They proved the causal effects of vaccination to “outcomes”, the only “problem” suggested on page 50 was a “kinda’ hold it..hold it..it may not be the thimerosal it may be the aluminum! Good heavens! Please all…read this link .
There were no numbers of unvaccinated children that I found within the writing, only a small cohort of under one month olds who had not yet started their series being in some way added in for the purpose of graph points.
Oh my goodness, this is despicable..they knew..they know!

It pretty much negates my theory, or maybe not, that many cells, such as human diploid are causing rampant immune problems similar , yet not equal to , graph vs host disease.

W&N’s link

http://www.autismhelpforyou.com/HG%20IN%20VACCINES%20-%20Simpsonwood%20-%20Internet%20File.pdf

please read page 50

Hi Barbaraj,

One step at a time…

Step 1: remember the issue, which was: is there any data on 100% unvaccinated kids?

Page 35: ” Zero, that’s pretty obvious. They didn’t get any vaccines. That’s another important point to keep in mind. None of the vaccines, except for polio which is usually given together with DTP or haemophilus
influenza, was thimerosal free in our cohort. That means that if the children don’t have thimerosal it means they didn’t get any vaccines. Whether it’s one, two, three, or six months of age.”

This is a clear as you can get: the referent group got zero vaccines. So it is a simple fact that there is data on totally unvaccinated kids.

Step 2: acknowledge the fact

This is the part where you post something like:

“Ok, there is at least one study on totally unvaccinated kids and all the people that claim that this sort of study has never been done are wrong.”

Go ahead, it won’t hurt.

Step 3: understand the significance of the data

~110,000 US kids, almost 2% are totally unvaccinated. And full or partial vaccination did nothing to the risk of autism.

This is incredibly power data that vaccines have absolutely nothing to do with autism.

Step 4: decide where to go next

We can do a brief statistic review–it is clear from your comments about page 50 that you have completely misunderstood the data and failed to follow the discussion.

Or if you prefer attorneys, we can go through the sorted legal history of US lawsuits claiming that vaccines/thimerosal cause autism. Where all the
vaccines cause autism arguments have been ruled “junk science”.
http://mdcourts.gov/opinions/coa/2009/112a08.pdf

Or maybe you would like to read the US court rulings where they characterized the lead scientists who claim vaccines cause autism as lying to make money?

Interestingly, the same authors that claim there is no data on unvaccinated kids also tend to untruthfully claim that you can sue vaccine manufacturers/administrators.

As least they are consistent: consistently wrong.

W&N

I followed up on White & Nerdy’s link and references.

The study looked at 110,000 infants. By age 3 months a few of them had still not received vaccines.

This is what he means by a study looking at vaccinated and unvaccinated children.

What patent dishonesty on your part, W & N!

The Verstraeten study was eventually published. Why didn’t you refer to the published version?