On its website, the NAA describes its mission in this way: "We will educate society that autism is not a lifelong incurable genetic disorder but one that is biomedically definable and treatable. We will raise public and professional awareness of environmental toxins as causative factors in neurological damage that often results in an autism or related diagnosis."
Anyone who has been around the autism world for more than a short time knows that this description of autism is highly controversial. So it should not be surprising that media alerts from the NAA are ... controversial.
In this case, the media alerts revolve around the publication of a CDC document which focuses on a concern that parents are avoiding vaccinations because of safety fears. Specifically, the CDC document notes, vaccine-related issues now outnumber the incidence of the diseases against which the vaccines provide protection: "...last year in the United States, the number of reported adverse events associated with vaccination was greater than the number of reported cases of vaccine-preventable disease." This is an issue for the CDC, because it is creating a public perception that vaccines are more dangerous than the diseases they prevent. And the CDC has a lot to say about this problem.
From the point of view of the NAA, though, the most important line in the document is this: “Some claims against vaccines cannot be disproved.”
In fact, their media alert is headed with this line, which is described as a "shocker."
The reality, though, is that the existence of the vaccine court means that the government has long acknowleged the reality that vaccines can and do cause damage. It's rare, but it's real.
So -- given that vaccines do occasionally cause damage -- can the CDC absolutely disprove an autism-vaccine link? The answer is no -- not because there necessarily is such a link, but because science cannot DISPROVE any claim. The reason for this is simple: logically it is impossible to rule out all possible circumstances.
Can you prove that walking under a ladder NEVER causes bad luck? Can you prove that UFO's DIDN'T land in the backyard last night? Can you prove that autism ISN'T caused by global warming? Of course, these claims are unlikely to be true, but there's no way to PROVE that they're impossible.
In their press release, the NAA says that they are "simply curious whether vaccines injured their children or whether vaccines and the schedule are sufficiently safe to use." They say their organization is not anti-vaccine, but rather pro-safety. Vaccines may be perfectly safe, they suggest, but it's up to the CDC to prove it. The proof, they say, could be found were the CDC to conduct a full investigation into possible adverse effects of vaccines by comparing vaccinated to unvaccinated children.
All this sounds perfectly reasonable, and even open minded. But then there's this statement: "As doubts grow about vaccine-caused disease, and the apparent threat from infectious diseases is all but gone, the “healthy” choice is to avoid unknown vaccine risks and rely on others’ herd immunity."
What this means, in essence, is that smart parents should eschew vaccines for their own children, relying instead on other parents' foolish choice to vaccinate. If other parents vaccinate, of course, diseases such as measles and diphtheria will not proliferate. So one's own child enjoys the double benefit of non-vaccination AND vaccine-related protection from potentially deadly or disabling disease.
If the NAA is all about safety, I'm behind them 100%. But I do have concerns about their take on the autism-vaccine controversy:
One: there is no doubt whatsoever that vaccines work to protect the vast majority of Americans from specific diseases. In fact, they work so well that we have all but forgotten the ravages of the diseases from which they protect us. I, for one, am not willing to return to the bad old days of iron lungs and rubella-inflicted birth defects -- even if other parents' choice to vaccinate could potentially protect my child.
Two: it's hard for me to believe that ANY research conducted by the US Government -- or by anyone who has ever received any funding whatever from the US government -- would be acceptable to the NAA. In fact, since I know science cannot DISPROVE a belief, I'm worried that the NAA and like-minded thinkers are raising the bar for the CDC to the point where it's impossible to leap.
As a student of theology (I hold a Masters in Divinity) I can't help but liken this challenge to one I've heard in the past: "can you PROVE there's a God?"
“We will educate society that autism is not a lifelong incurable genetic disorder but one that is bio medically definable and treatable. We will raise public and professional awareness of environmental toxins as causative factors in neurological damage that often results in an autism or related diagnosis.”
That is fine, if they can definitely know how autism happens in every single person starting way back to the very first diagnosed. It also would be fine except for those whose autism does effect them lifelong, does that mean they’re not getting the correct treatment? Autism is treatable, that is undeniably true no matter what the causes for autism are but how many of us know parents who’ve offered their children everything possible, yet their child still has autism? Eventually, that herd immunity will be gone, and it took some time to get there to begin with. How about someone proving the CDC vaccines are not safe? It’s like buying a used car and the owner coming back and saying there’s something wrong with it and the seller having to prove there is something wrong. If, in my mind, something was seriously flawed about vaccines, it wouldn’t be so hard to locate. But maybe it is, maybe some one isn’t looking at the right chromosome. All it takes is a few coming from vacation or relocating and exposing other’s. I myself would not want to return to those days, either. You wont be arguing cause of autism, you’ll be arguing who gave what germ to your kid and possibly going over your deductible to keep your child from dying. We can look at the UK to see that relying on other’s herd immunity does not work.
Interesting topic. You’re on a roll this week!
“How about someone proving the CDC vaccines are not safe?”
Easy. Go to VAERS, The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System. Created by the CDC and FDA.
http://vaers.hhs.gov/
You will find children who have died as the result of being administered vaccines. Merck who manufactured ProQuad (MMR-V) that was taken off the market, themselves reported two deaths because of the ProQuad vaccine.
Prove they are safe? You can’t, everyone knows they aren’t safe.
Dr Keiji Fukuda, the WHO’s flu chief, last week warned about the potential dangers of the untested vaccine: “There are certain areas where you simply do not try to make any economies. One of the things which cannot be compromised is the safety of vaccines.”
He was talking about the upcoming H1N1 vaccines.
VAERS is not accurate reporting, I could go report anything, true or not. If you read VAERS, you’ll see few are medically documented.
Before lies and misinformation flies faster than the anti-vax pro-disease movement can generate it, I implore people to get some of the lies straightened out from the “movement”.
Go to http://facsnotfantasy.com/vaccines.html for a counter to virtually every lie they have put out to the public. In particular, that windbag jenny McCarthy. I also urge you to explore some of the other tabs on the Vaccine Page.
I couldn’t get to that link by the link, but I could get by clicking on Larian LQuella
What I find amazing about this debate are the people that claim science being on their side when there in fact is none. The 16 – 19 studies that idiots like Offit and NBC’s Snyderman continue to speak of as “definitive” “case-closed” scientific proof that vaccines dont cause autism are complete junk. Epidemiological studies can be easily scewed, (as these same people claim when talking about our studies) and the rest of them are anecdotal studies that shouldn’t even be submitted to peer reviewed journals.
It’s actually sad that these “science based” idiots can’t come up with something better because as more people become involved,their science is exposed as the industry shill protectionism that it is and the worse they look. Their arguments simply don’t hold water when truly looked at.
Eventually even the media will have to start reporting the truth or lose all credibilty. Although there are some news organizations (FOX, NBC, ABC) that will probably never give up there corporate whore ways.
I look forward to the day when these lying, poisoning doctors get whats coming to them. They are criminals.
anectdotal studies get refused by peer reviewed journals, so they wouldn’t be in them. If they were, there would be a disclaimer. However, I’m guessing you don’t work for a university and have access to said peer reviewed journals like I do.
It’s interesting how 3 of the 4 network news stations won’t report the ‘truth’ and the one that does, CBS, has the reporting done by a biased journalist that can’t accept her kid’s autism could have been caused by her own genes. You know, because being wealthy and perfect means you can’t produce a ‘damaged’ child.
It’s also interesting that Autism Speaks was started by an executive from NBC, but somehow NBC isn’t following it’s own executive’s opinions?
The only way I could see a vaccine causing autism is if that vaccine caused a fever, which caused a fever seizure, which triggered the autism. Somehow, with a 40% clinical rate of comorbid seizure disorders, I have trouble finding research on seizures and autism. I’ve no idea why the medical community isn’t investigating, and the fact that the anti-vaccination community isn’t investigating means they probably can’t show that’s likely, either.
My son’s symptoms improved after 2 recent vaccinations, the DTAP and MMR. Now I doubt the vaccines had anything to do with the improvement but they certainly didn’t damage him. He doesn’t have seizures that I know of, however. I’m pretty sure his sensory integration dysfunction has far more to do with his disabilities than anything else. Unfortunately that’s another disorder that lacks the science to prove.
People call Dr. Offit an idiot, but he donated all the profits from his book to autism research. How is he looking for money? He could have kept the profits… maybe that’s why he’s an idiot.
It’s frustrating. I go to an alternative medicine place to find enzyme therapy for my son’s diagnosed disorder, and get encouraged to put enzymes my son doesn’t need in him by the same kind of people who accuse the medical community of doing the same. I think there’s profit seeking on both sides of the fence and people with autism are stuck in the middle.
That said, my little boy is protected, as are his sisters, by vaccines. They aren’t going to be the kid that brings a deadly disease to a child in school that has an honest medical reason not to be vaccinated, or to an infant in their pediatrician’s office.
“Epidemiological studies can be easily scewed, (as these same people claim when talking about our studies)”
This may or may not be true, but when people read things like “idiots”, “when these lying, poisoning doctors get whats coming to them. They are criminals.” No one get’s anything out of that but anger and blame and there isn’t even anything sited to support such harsh words. With words like that, I’d automatically assume the 16 – 19 studies are valid, either that or accusations are just wildly thrown around as an eye catcher. It did catch my eye only most of it was discredited by the anger and name-calling. You rarely hear of a parent taking responsibility for those vaccines given which of course it’s not every one else’s fault. No one holds a gun to a parents head while their child get’s vaccines. Vaccines certainly can contribute to many things, but no one is a criminal on this subject and if any are, parents will also have to step up to the plate for their part before placing blame on everyone else.
Navi, Paul Offit never intended to make money off his book. He makes his money from his day job… and the huge multi-million dollar payday from a vaccine he co-developed. It’s in his financial best interests to defend vaccines. Not somebody to listen to as an expert witness.
@Lisa… you are sounding more neurodiverse and pharma-friendly than ever. Do you bother to study the data that organizations like NAA and Gen Rescue advocate? If you have difficulty understanding it, I’m sure either of those organizations could provide a consultant to help you make sense out of it all.
About that vaccines Paul Offit co-developed, has your child ever had rotovirus? Mine has. Not only is it nasty for the child and you’re forever trying to keep them from being dehydrated and out of the hospital, if you work you cant send your child to daycare. 13 straight days of horrible rotovirus and 11 days of unpaid, unexcused absence from my job. 500,000 children under five years of age die from rotavirus infection each year. So that great money maker really was generated as a life saver and maybe even a job-saver for some. The only best interest any one has to develop a vaccine is to prevent an illness, and one that proves deadly to children. It’s amazing that when an illness can and does cause death, the preventing vaccine is only considered a money-maker. Had that vaccine been available when my son was young, I would have asked for it and gladly had contributed to Offit’s bank account.
Don’t mistake prevention for Pharam friendly. Just because some one chooses something or offer’s info just makes them regular parents doing the best for their own child and offering info to other’s. The info may not be of value to you, but it may be to other’s.
Erik, we all look forward to the day when GR’s data are published in a legitimate, high-impact, peer reviewed journal. We also look forward to the day when GR doesn’t expel journalists for asking legitimate questions at its conferences, but that’s not likely to happen, either.
Face it, your club is nothing more than an echo chamber for anti-vaccine zealots. Cloaking yourself in the respectability of science is a no substitute for free and honest inquiry. In fact, it’s embarrassing.
Hi Navi –
This statement is the perfect illustration of what is wrong with the defense of our existing research set as adequate; it is based in large part on people not being to imagine a way in which vaccines might cause long term effects. Unfortunately, we know very little about autism, and indeed, we still have much to learn about the immune system. If there wasn’t such a voluminous set of research regarding abnormal immune function in autism this type of oversight might be forgivable; but considering how frequently we have observed problems with the immune regulation in autism, to say that there must be no relationship because we cannot fathom its mechanism strikes me as dangerously hubris if it is to be our basis for not putting research into a national health policy.
By way of example, you might be interested in knowing that an immune challenge during critical post natal periods appears sufficient to cause animals to be more seizure prone into adulthood.
Postnatal Inflammation Increases Seizure Susceptibility in Adult Rats (Galic 2008)
[not linking, as this site usually eats those posts]
Or, did you know that immune challenges can permenantly alter inflammatory responses in animals if given during specific timeframes?
Early-life immune challenge: defining a critical window for effects on adult responses to immune challenge [Spencer 2006]
There are many, many others including alterations to HPA-Axis values, behavioral changes, and other immune functions. Unfortunately, if we are having similar effects with our vaccination program, studying a single vaccination in isolation (i.e., mmr) or a single vaccine ingredient (i.e,. thimerosal) these effects would be invisible. Further murking the picture is that several experiements indicate a time dependent variable. Personal genetics are also apparently very involved in the robustness of an immune response.
Hm. Well, what have you been looking for? For example, having a seizure in the first year of life is associated with a future diagnosis of autism.
Risk of autism spectrum disorders after infantile spasms: a population-based study nested in a cohort with seizures in the first year of life [Saemundsen 2008]
Autism spectrum disorders in children with seizures in the first year of life – a population-based study [Saumenudsen 2007]
You might be interested in knowing that recent research indicates that seizures can be caused by spikes in cytokines, especially tnf-alpha, IL-6, and IL-Beta1.
The role of interleukin-1beta in febrile seizures [Heida 2009]
The role of cytokines in the pathophysiology of epilepsy [Vezzani 2008]
Curiously enough, children with autism have been shown to create more of these cytokines in response to a variety of stimulants.
Proinflammatory and regulatory cytokine production associated with innate and adaptive immune responses in children with autism spectrum disorders and developmental regression [Jyounouchi 2001]
I am in agreement with several of the other areas of your posting; especially your concerns over sensory processing disorders.
- pD
News item today; a four year old girl in the UK died of mumps.
I read about that 4 year old. It’s unclear if she had the booster and I’m not sure that the UK even recommends a booster at age 4. However, not everyone ever build’s immunity after a vaccine; vaccines are not fool proof to build the immunity but it seems the mumps are very high in the UK and in the USA as well. It’s truly sad that little girl died. Seems herd immunity is dwindling in the UK.
I’m part of the herd, and so are my kids. It’s important to keep this herd immunity, exactly as has been said. I do believe that we have to be aware of the risks, and I felt reasonably educated concerning them when I agreed to have both of my children vaccinated.
I did not want my son to ever be the cause for someone’s children being maimed by rubella – for a grief-stricken family to come up to him and single him out as the reason why they will now have to spend tremendous resources for a child who may never survive.
There are odds of adverse effects from vaccines. They are significantly easier to deal with than the odds of life-changing effects from the diseases which they are to prevent, should my child prove to be an adventurous soul who wanders among those who don’t have herd immunity – such as nearby religious communities. There was a rubella outbreak less than half an hour away, after all, and despite my own vaccinations, my titre was nonexistent while I was pregnant with my second child.
Can you trust the herd to protect your family?
Can you trust the herd to protect your family?
Another question: Can we trust our news media to accurately and effectively communicate the science regarding vaccines, and to expose the destructive myths that are undermining public confidence?
I must say yours is one of the best blogs on the internet. You always present your thoughts in a way that seems middle of the road but you get jabs in to all sides. Thank you for doing what you do.
I have not seen anyone pose a couple of questions… One if all these vaccines are supposed to reduce infants deaths why do we have one of the highest infant mortality rate out of 1st world countries. We give about 3x more vaccines?
The other question is with all the advances in modern science do we vaccinate for ever? Something that might have killed a few people 70 years ago, Might not have any impact on society today. Better sanitation, quicker response times, Better hospitals, better doctors and more. My question is… Is there an end point or do vaccines keep piling on? There are over 140 waiting in the wings for approval. I am afraid to get the three for the flu this fall.
Can you trust the herd to Government to oversee the mfg of safe vaccines?
Another question: Can we trust our news media to accurately and effectively communicate the science regarding vaccine safety, and to expose the lies & inbreeding that are undermining public confidence?
I forgot where did Julie Gerberding go to work after being our voice for the protection of the herd?
One would have to look at what causes those deaths. The common cause of infant mortality worldwide has traditionally been dehydration from diarrhea. Other causes are common cause is pneumonia congenital malformation, infection and SIDS. Some countries also do not count infant deaths so it would truly be difficult to know which country has the highest. I believe Africa has a very high child death rate of the measles.
Sanitation was only an issue in early plagues, but most childhood diseases as maybe said before is air born so sanitation had and has no effect. Also even if there is better hospitals, better medicine, there is far less health insurance so the risk of children dying from these childhood diseases is still very much a reality.
Sandy; i was kind of surprised at your comment about criminal prosecutions.Obviously, if someone has knowingly lied about side effects to vaccines (including an autism link),then they will be liable for criminal prosecution.
Parents have been reassured again and again that vaccines are safe and (despite the Hannah Poling and Bradley Banks cases), that there is no way vaccines can cause autism.
If they are being lied to,then the only blame lies with those who gave false information.The parents are blameless.
My own suspicion is that if autism is indeed increasing ( and being caused in part by vaccines) then as SSI numbers increase,and as more adult autistic people need care,and more families become affected by autism,then the political climate will change and there will indeed be criminal prosecutions.
Of course if I am wrong and it is purely a genetic disorder, with no known cause, present for ever, then there will be no SSI increase, no problem with finding care for the adults, ( after all we would have been caring for the same percentage of adults for years) and nothing for anyone to worry about regarding criminal prosecution.
I seem to recall mentioning this as possible, it at least warranted a study..seems like someone else believes it’s possible..
quote”
Sound Choice Pharmaceuticals is conducting the first bio-informatics and laboratory studies to determine the risk of genomic insertion of contaminating aborted fetal DNA in children’s genes. With the enormous social implications and with millions of families now affected by autism, this research is crucial and long overdue”
I don’t really recall any comment about criminal prosecutions, I did say something about the only ones who could be liable in the Poling case would be the doctor which over-injected. But aside from that, I wouldn’t have to be too well educated to know that if a doc came after my child with that many catch-up vaccines in one day, to question it. Parents are liable to ask questions, doctors do make mistakes. As for the Poling case, with that many vaccines in a day, autism is the least of what could have possibly been the side effects.
Not every child who is diagnosed with autism will require SSI. To assume each diagnosis would mean that would be an assumption that children with autism can not progress with interventions.
Lisa,
Your point about the NAA being “shocked” that the CDC can’t do the impossible is very clear. I think it is one aspect of a much larger issue.
The error really should have been obvious to NAA supporters—but somehow they all seem to have missed it. Even now that the error has been pointed out it is just ignored.
This is a common pattern that results in misinformation–make a false argument and continue to make it even after the error has been pointed out.
Last month several vocal advocates were posting on a national media site that it is impossible to sue vaccine manufacturers. One has her own autism blog and her work is posted on Age of Autism.
So I pointed out that it is a simple fact that in the US one can sue vaccine companies. I linked them to one decision from Maryland on vaccines/autism case and offered more.
You might think that they would be grateful to know the truth…but seemingly not.
Fast forward a couple of weeks and there is a new post on AoA claiming that you can’t sue vaccine makers. Just for extra irony the poster claims that if parents could sue then certain vaccines would be pulled.
Clearly AoA folks know that the poster’s argument is not true, but they allow the misinformation to continue.
Perhaps this is not surprising. Could anyone read the court decisions and continue to honestly believe that vaccines cause autism?
Anyway the only scientific questions left are psychological-why do these parents continue to believe untrue things?
What they more mean is you cant sue claiming autism and easily win. The thing with suing the vaccine makers is one small fact no one can answer: What IS it about vaccines that does cause autism? People have won otherwise in cases, with known side effects. But with autism, it’s muddled with the MMR, Thimerosal and then other additives as possible cause.
And the deal with the CDC proving the vaccines are completely safe, the NAA and many more wouldn’t believe that proof anyway
“..why do we have one of the highest infant mortality rate out of 1st world countries. We give about 3x more vaccines?”
It’s shaky ground to compare U.S. infant mortality with other countries. Read this:
http://tinyurl.com/22v5c5
“Something that might have killed a few people 70 years ago, might not have any impact on society today.”
Pure speculation on your part. But why only focus on fatalities? Is it not bad enough that some infectious diseases can leave their victims brain damaged, blind, deaf, etc? Helen Keller was left blind and deaf from a measles infection when she was just an infant. Chickenpox can lead to flesh eating bacteria. Improved sanitation does little to stop an airborne pathogen such as measles. In the case of polio, improved sanitation in the US during the 30s made the population more vulnerable to that virus, not less.
Some preventable diseases lend themselves to eradication. Smallpox is a well-known example. Varicella is another. Tetanus, on the other hand, is in the soil and will always be with us.
Can we trust our news media to accurately and effectively communicate the science regarding vaccine safety, and to expose the lies & inbreeding that are undermining public confidence?
So far, our news and entertainment media have done a poor job of exposing the many fabrications of anti-vaccine activists. Part of the problem is “he said-she said” reporting, which gives equal weight to the opinions of, say, a highly-trained vaccine researcher and Hollywood celebrities.
Lisa Jo Rudy:
I have 2 boys with PDD NOS. They have been treated using Advanced Behavior Analysis (ABA). My wife and I worked with our school system (early intervention), our pediatrician, and other Autism experts including Dr. Rafael Castro of The Integrated Center for Child Development to arrange for ongoing ABA treatment beginning at age 1.5 for both boys. I am pleased to say that through much sacrifice, love, dedication, and support both boys (age 4 and 7) no longer exhibit any Autism traits.
That said, I believe you are doing a disservice by stating the following:
“What this means, in essence, is that smart parents should eschew vaccines for their own children, relying instead on other parents’ foolish choice to vaccinate. If other parents vaccinate, of course, diseases such as measles and diphtheria will not proliferate. So one’s own child enjoys the double benefit of non-vaccination AND vaccine-related protection from potentially deadly or disabling disease.”
Are you saying that parents such as us are “not smart” since we had our children vaccinated. All the evidence at this point shows that vaccinations and autism not having a link.
I find it interesting that you did not once mention in this article that parents should speak to their pediatrician about their questions/concerns about vaccinations or the studies that are being conducted today regarding genetics and Autism.
For those of you looking for facts and not theories, I ask you read a Q and A by Geri Dawson, Chief Science Officer of Autism Speaks. Link is below to the entire Q and A. In summary, she states the following when it comes to vaccinations: “So, the answer to the question is that, given what the scientific literature tells us today, there is no evidence that thimerosal or the MMR vaccine cause autism. It’s important to keep in mind that the lack of a relationship between vaccines and autism in large population studies does not mean that there cannot be any relationship in some individual instances. Immunizations can, in rare cases, have adverse consequences; this is well-known. It remains scientifically plausible that the challenge to the immune system resulting from a vaccine (or other immunological challenges) could, in susceptible individuals, have adverse consequences for the developing brain.
Autism speaks is conducting research in those areas and if they do discover that specific genetic mutations or medical conditions trigger or are associated with the onset of autism for a small minority of individuals, pediatricians could better explain to parents why the risk for their own child is extremely low; such a discovery also could allow pediatricians to screen for at risk children.”
http://www.autismspeaks.org/science/science_news/geri_dawson_vaccines_autism_interview.php
Lastly, for those of you that believe their child may have Autism, I strongly recommend Dr. Rafael Castro of the Integrated Center for Child Development (ICCD). They are located in Canton or Newton MA. Link is as follows: http://www.iccdpartners.org/
In closing I ask that everyone allows parents to focus on facts, make informed decisions about their child’s medical care, communicate openly with their pediatrician about vaccinations, and stop spreading hyperbole as it relates to Autism.
Mark, you say “Are you saying that parents such as us are “not smart” since we had our children vaccinated. All the evidence at this point shows that vaccinations and autism not having a link.”
I’m afraid you misunderstood my point. I guess sarcasm doesn’t always translate well in print…
I was reflecting on the fact that the NAA was suggesting that parents should NOT vaccinate, but instead should depend upon others to do so! IMHO, this is absolutely unethical — since what it means (at least from the NAA’s point of view) is “let other parents take the risks.”
I AM NOT supporting this idea.
in short, I agree with you completely.
Lisa
I’m not a scientist, or a doctor or even a university researcher. I do have a 9 year old child on the autism spectrum. I did not get him vaccinated early on because of all the growing vaccine concerns at the time. At age 2 1/2 he was diagnosed – without having been vaccinated. I can definitively say that in his case, the vaccines did not cause his autism. Needless to say he is now vaccinated.
Excellent comments and some serious points made by both sides.
Vaccines have been with us for 200 years and autism as a big problem for just 20 years.
However we have now shot ourselves in the foot. Or more accurately in every part of the anatomy, so we have to describe which part of which appendage the vaccines now go.
How many adults would subject themselves of 60 or more vaccines in a short space of time and many taken over and over again? Yet they are brow beaten into injecting their children until one in three has permanent health problems.
The annual flu shot amounts to ten vaccines in ten years and is nothing to the 60 or so for an infant possibly ten times smaller in the same time and with an immature body.
Repeat vaccines do cause health issues of a major nature and this has been proven to be a constant fact and problem of any vaccine by meticulous research 100 years old – see Charles Richet et al. The science is the same today as then only the arroagance, obstinacy and denial has been elevated.
Of course we need some vaccines but do we need to inject organomercury compounds?
Of course we need most current vaccines but do we need the same injection repeated until the patient dies, gets ill or has a seizure?
Of course we need vaccines for serious illness but 50 million vaccines to stop a few dozen getting an illness that can be treated for a few dollars, pounds or euros in almost complete safety?
Why do minor illnesses of yesterday become the killer illnesses of today?
And where did AIDS/SIDA come from. Ask Mercks chief vaccine expert or watch him in video action of previously banned interviews.
For me, we have entered an Aliice in Wonderland scenario where paralysis of a limb to people suddenly ceases to become polio today as that person has had his polio jab. Meanwhile doctors puzzle over why polio injected only causes minor harm to people. In any event paralysis today from whatever cause is as high as it was when called polio.
I talk to people who get their flu shots and get properly put in my place when their illness of a cold or bronchitis is clearly not the flu.
The argument that after the flu shot your malady is called a different name does not seem to prevent their annual fix.
Sadly these people with skin falling off their bodies, enduring MS and getting leukaemia are as distant from vaccine harm as you get.
Today if as a doctor you mention harm from a drug (prescribed by a doctor) or adverse effects of a vaccine you will lose your medical licence or be made to look a fool.
Someone I know was prescribed a cancer forming drug knowingly given but not described as such. When that patient suffered all manner of adverse effects the doctors stated no way it is that drug which by now was stopped. After checking NO HARM was done, they then stated of course you had a bad reaction to this drug.
If you can’t see the reasons for this kind of double talk you will fail to see that a vaccine described as causing a dozen and more deaths, seizures and autism on the small printed leaflets is merrily given to hundreds of millions of people to prevent, as said, illness that costs a few dollars to treat to the few who get it.
I have survived by 3 or 4 vaccines for dangerous illnesses and of course the smallpox jab now no longer needed. TB jabs seem to have stopped but not TB which goes to ever higher numbers so clearly indicates more work to be done or maybe vaccines are not all as successful as smallpox injections. Note that the elimination of smallpox came after and not before the shots were stopped and kept for outbreaks only where every resource was brought in to kill of the disease in the small pockets where it occurred.
This does take hard work and determination.
The easy way out of 60 vaccines just means in the USA that one person in three is not completely healthy.
This is way too high a price and we need to be as clever as the pioneers who got rid rid of smallpox not as dumb as to put up with 30 per cent maimed citizens being forced to endure or lose out on every service or job opportunity.
Recommended reading GANGSTERS IN MEDICINE by Thomas Smith 2002 plus a million other honest peoples take of study of individual cases rather thna lumping millions together and casually writing out the problems and sickness encountered.
Finally lets not forget that two out of three have all these vaccines, drugs et al and seem to be just fine. Medical Practice is positively and unarguably 67 per cent perfect. Getting them to admit 33 per cent harm is as the TV series reminds us MISSION IMPOSSIBLE.
To Audrey,
Why no vaccines until more than two years old? I do not agree with over vaccination but would expect to have received or permitted 4 by this age as an anti vaxer person? More accurately very careful vaccinator.
There are many ways of getting autism and about a dozen are already widely admitted so sadly the fact that your child is autistic and not due to vaccines is admitted by both sides and obviously not worth checking up almost in this case.
However without more evidence it is difficult to comment accurately as the one day vaccine which after all is the most dangerous is often given without people realising.
And yes a vaccine for tetanus, diphtheria are vital. But why do we need to repeat them so often if vaccines work?
Autism was almost unknown a hundred years ago and of course that was well into the vaccine era.
I can counter your one example with ten examples of autism and even death following vaccines and the one most studied by me is of Harry Clark vaccinated at 4.30pm and dead at 10.30pm with everyone from family to doctors knowing that the vaccine actually improved his chance of a long life.
As they say its a MAD MAD MAD WORLD.
Has your child had doctor prescribed drugs ever? One used for epilepsy is known to take away the mind.
Also living near incinerators, power stations et al is a big risk factor.
It is sad to study cases of harm but sadder when clear signs are overlooked. The current rate of illness is catastrophic for the USA.
The good news is that 10 to 20 per cent do magically get over autism mostly by people doing research and finding the causal factor regardless of what others say or admit.
Here in France sadly the problem is also seemingly on the rise too although never are two vaccines given together and the number is no here near as many as in USA.
Just where does 60 vaccines come from? Again, do you have credible sources for which children had the flu vaccine and which didn’t? Which died, had seizures and had autism? That is the most inflated number I have ever read in 10 years doing this autism stuff. You also don’t get the flu vaccine when you have the flu. It does no good. Even if you had the flu vaccine, you can still acquire a cold or bronchitis and even the flu. The flu vaccine each year is a guess of which strain will appear and again, it’s building that immunity which everyone should know not every body builds it from the vaccine. No vaccine builds immunity for every person, either. That has been a known fact forever. Why do minor illnesses of yesterday become the killer illnesses of today? Which minor ones are you talking about? Some viruses mutate, making them more dangerous than yesterday. People with other health issues can have a more risk getting past a minor cold and could be out right dangerous for them. A minor anything can put a person at risk whose on chemo. As for smallpox, I suppose you’d need to look up the last reported case in the USA. But even still, small pox was so deadly, it’s used as threat these days for bio warfare.
To Autism News Beat
Your reference to Doctor Bernadine Healy is odd as she is in August 2009 completely open on the autism-vaccine connection today and here 3 to 4 years ago can be seen rather supporting the then establishment very strongly.
Her arguments are circular in that she puts the high number of deaths in USA due to low birth weight. Sadly this is just another measure of how bad the USA situation on health has become.
If you take USA children alive at one year of age they have the worst risk for early death of any other major first world country.
You can’t play the: We count dead as alive at birth here.
The illnesses and deaths are internationally agreed for the very reason of international and valid comparisons, so if there are reasons for the differences other than a league table then surely this needs sorting out?
Why have international agreements if you dont agree or follow the agreements?
Looking at 6 year old USA children half have signs of diabetes. Why? And is this normal?
USA children at age 12 are 33 per cent likely to be neurologically ill too. Why? And again is this normal?
The signs are not of concern but more of total failure and catastrophe with people flailing around not to provide answers but as in this article to find excuses.
If it ain’t broke dont fix it is not applicable.
But if it is broke then for goodness sake at least stop digging. The plan to give three more vaccines produced in a matter of weeks with no long term safety checks is not just digging but more like trying to build in an earth quake zone where some ‘idiot’ has predicted a likely earthquake in the next 12 months.
Maybe we should look at history and understand why they call it ‘childhood vaccines’. A 2 year old can wash their own hands, be taught to cover their mouths when coughing however many of these diseases are air borne, which wouldn’t matter who washed hands. The reason why children cant and couldn’t and died is because their systems are much smaller of that of an adult. Their lungs, bronc tubes are all tiny but the virus is the same size when contracted by an adult and child.
Repeat them if the vaccine worked? If you are a chemist you’d then know about immunity and why there’s a need for boosters. Even for dogs there is no life time vaccine for rabies.
Vaccines or not, autism can still happen and so can these illnesses. A young child with autism with a high fever from whatever can be dangerous when that child will not take fever reducer or if they do, gags on it and throws it right back up. A child with autism can have an ear infection and be in pain but they never show it. If I could had prevented my child from Scarlet fever, I would had. If small pox becomes a threat, me and my kid would be right there in line.
As for autism rates, hard to say what they did in France a 100 years ago, but in the USA 59 years ago those with autism were sent away and siblings were left to wonder where that brother or sister ever went. In many countries, any disability is a shame to societies norm. Probably in the 1970’s when ADHD sky rocketed, it probably was autism.
Are we suggesting vaccines contribute to childhood diabetes more so than eating habits would? If children at age 12 are 33 per cent likely to be neurologically ill, what would the cause of that be then? I’d say a good part of the population has something wrong with them in one way or another. Linking it all to vaccines is another story.
How can we be certain that our own vaccines aren’t causing autism? Do we know what the “dna from the diploid cells” are doing within our bodies, do we know if rubella isn’t live and well within us, do we know that we haven’t created antibodies against our fetus’ brain tissue. We don’t know if not vaccinating will stop autism, because we don’t know what kinds of conditions our own vaccines set up for our future generations.
Hi Sandy
I am pleased to get your comments and pleased you have been on the trail for ten years.
I have been on the same trail for much too long 40 years or so and sadly my strong concerns on vaccines took 35 years to surface such is the level of propaganda to fool the normal person.
Ten years ago I would argue organophosphates were the big bug bear of bad health and vaccines are essential which in a very limited number they still are.
Mumps was one illness that is often considered and often is mild. Of course there are always exceptions and it is good to have a tried and tested vaccine at hand if there is a real need.
But think for a moment that mumps is a known cause of autism. So is it a good idea to have mumps live virus floating around mothers of the age at which they have children? I am possibly in a minority of one but accepting mumps as a cause of autism and the mum possibly exposed to hundreds of vaccinated against mumps infants with live virus seems a dangerous policy to follow.
No one can be right all the time and if its honesty and not lies then theres not a problem. I took 60 as the number of vaccines administered to USA children today. The actual number is I thought more than 60 so hopefully I was under rather than over guesstimating. The let up in vaccinations seems to occur when people grow up in every sense of the word.
What number do you get for the teenage USA child to have received? The prime source is of course the CDC recommendations. I think today it starts with jabs for blood incompatibility, the flu et al and the child is not out in the open. It continues at age one day or less and by four months they are well into multi vaccines four or five at a go. There’s a round dozen before 4 months of age. My own child got nothing until 6 months. One jab and despite being kept in cotton wool, mysteriously had a severe and serious illness 3 weeks later and huge nodular incrustations on her face until nearly five years old. All caused by our unhealthy sanitation or so the doctor reliably informed us. The best, newest house in the area 5 years old and spotlessly clean? I dont think so. No one else got these mysterious highly contagious ailments.
I apologise for my lack of clarity as the flu jabs are those given to people of my age free of charge when people achieve senior age. Sadly I lose count of how many pass away and sadly not often of old age. Nothing will convince them of the ongoing need for more organomercury intake.
I just wish that vaccines would not be given to sick people – you say. The first case study I read of a death to a Mexican man with Swine flu made the comment that after getting the illness his therapy included the flu vaccine. Of course he died or I would never have got the information. His wife who looked after him is alive well and still flu free. He was fit and forties in age.
If I forget any points please ask again or tear me to bits even – metaphorically of course.
I have to say that like AIDS/SIDA, SIDS or cot death and now autism it is sad but convenient that a society that can get so effortlessly to the moon et al cannot find causes for illnesses that make 250 000 measles case every year look like a good health policy.
It may well prove a mile off that any autism has ever been caused by a vaccine despite its admission in vaccine leaflets by vaccine companies but its a lot better to be positive about something that is proved wrong rather than proving nothing.
We need to be accurate and reliable in our information and not kill the messengers. Dr Wakefield may have got it wrong in his invasive procedures for autism patients but at least he found harm that had not been seen before, but rather than build on this, we seek as the GMC in UK do, to crucify the messenger. Would he repeat this dangerous procedure? To be honest he never did the tests ever so even here we seem to prosecute the wrong people. For my money I don’t think he would do this again or allow others to do it. How many doctors can honestly say they are not responsible for harm to their patients? I have never harmed one patient as fortunately I am not a doctor and do not have to make impossible decisions.
With the SIDS at levels from 1 in 500 or so this is a real problem for doctors which has been surgically removed from their concern with the classification of SIDS as a real cause of death. Sad that it has 11 out of 12 clinical similarities to vaccine adverse reactions.
Generation Rescue doesn’t even site 60 vaccines, and that is including the flu and Hep A jabs. That 60 number is way inflated.
One has to focus on age of vaccines and where the issues really lies. If we’re looking at infant/ toddler vaccines and onset of autism, then those given after that age shouldn’t be a topic. You also have to focus or define prenatal from the childhood vaccine schedule. You also have to focus on what part of the vaccines does it, for most who get that vaccine. The flu jab would be a different topic than the MMR.
AIDS/SIDA, SIDS, you may want to define what SIDA stands for, really have nothing to do with childhood vaccines. Those just muddle the picture. Did you know SIDS is prominent in one ethnic group more so than any other? Vaccines may contribute to that, however then it would be a factor only for that one ethnic group when considering vaccines.
In my opinion, Wakefield didn’t find anything and any of his ‘findings’ were a conflict of interest at most. You can not look at a flawed study and only pick out the parts that’s most agreeable to your theory. Either the whole study was good, or it was flawed with critical mistakes. In 10 years or so there has been plenty of time to build on that one study, and attempts have been done to no avail. Wakefield himself said the MMR did not cause autism, it cause GI issues. He didn’t suggest MMR rejection, but a split in the 3:1. Wakefield is living quietly in Texas and has not produced very many great studies since.
Isn’t it the mumps that if a young teen male contracts it thereafter becomes sterile? Nice way to promote birth control, but besides that, what exactly do you consider mild? Have yo had the mumps?
It’s hard to make vaccine change when one does not know which part to change. We know when there is vaccine rejection to the MMR, Measles outbreaks occur showing us vaccines do work for many people to build that immunity. A smaller dose of the virus for some may be far better than the full blown exposure to it. That is for each person to decide for themselves.
BarbJ, are you familiar with the term arguing from ignorance?
Many things are derived from many different things, animal and human. How do we know of the meat we eat that it doesn’t mutate or own DNA? Injection or ingestion, it all circulates. We could have been setting up future generations for many many things just based on what we eat. Would organ transplants carry some of the donors DNA? In most cases, your own DNA would be prominent and absorb any speck of foreign DNA.
We don’t know if not vaccinating would do anything at all towards the many things vaccines are blamed for.
For all of you who want to believe that vaccines are not a cause of autism check out the article:autism-mushrooms-vaccines-possible-causes-20070602. Follow the article down to the secret Simpsonwood meeting link and see for yourself the CDC file where the CDC’s brightest and best admitted in June of 2000 that vaccines are a cause of autism, and the link to the Puerto Rico PDF file about the alzheimers/ vaccines link. It’s chilling!
Never forget VAERS 134548…..cause of death was encephalomyelitis. An autopsy was performed, but the brain was liquifed. I haven’t slept well at night for years.
Encephalomyelitis isn’t autism however Encephalomyelitis is nasty and I believe you’ve given that same VAERS number before. Encephalomyelitis can happen following a viral infection but also following vaccination, bacterial or parasitic infection, or even appear spontaneously and let’s not forget mosquito’s. 1 per 1000 for measles vaccine and 1 per 5000 for rubella but the same could happen had you contracted the very virus naturally. Now ask yourself, what is a viral infection? The common cold, a wart. Any viral infection can be followed by Encephalomyelitis.
My kids first mosquito bite was when he was 14 weeks old, sitting in his infant seat on the front porch of the day care provider. No mosquito netting over my kid.
Can you prove there isn’t God?
Science cant prove there’s a God one way or another (only a ghost can) the belief is based on faith. As for vaccines, no one should rely on faith, ever, or some one else’s faith. Eventually, science will prove something that everyone will accept.
Hi Sandie,
A lot of points but just a few:
Autism can arrive at any time and not just after the first vaccine or the vaccines received before the age of speech is reached.
A very important type of autism is the regressive form where a previously advancing and talkative child loses communications skills and other skills.
This is hard for me, as the child was born healthy, developed healthily but failed for whatever reason.
What were the danger points that the child was exposed to, that caused this regression.
Looking at teenage girls we find some becoming paralysed, losing skills they developed and dying after anti-cancer vaccines.
Much later in life we get an annual flu vaccine and people develop Alzheimers Disease in ever increasing numbers.
All of these can be caused by things other than vaccines but vaccines are a valid risk factor that needs proper, unbridled, honest investigation.
Drugs, vaccines and possible exposure to dangerous chemicals come immediately to mind.
The fact that these exposures are in general increasing along with increasing illnesses is worrisome.
But the most worrying aspect is how the media, scientific journals et al avoid the papers or news that implicates environmental factors.
For decades we are subject to propaganda where only one side of the argument is allowed.
Hence the importance and power of the net to educate those that use the net.
ANB mentions a fallacy but if you explore the group there are many other fallacies that are applicable to this vaccine causes autism argument.
We do know many causes of autism and sadly if you listen carefully you realise many regulatory agencies and vaccine companies and goverment courts also accept this as fact.
Vaccines can induce autism.
But the mainstream voice is an almost inaudible whisper.
Meanwhile the autism numbers go up exponentially and the costs and problems too.
Nearly every vaccine comes in at the tail end of what was a problem 50 or 100 years before.
Some have sprung up after the introduction of vaccines. Polio for example was not a problem until the 20th century when many were paralysed in various limbs often those that received vaccines. Paralysis still occurs and teenage girls are being reduced to wheelchairs but no one mentions polio as the cause.
Meanwhile todays researchers puzzle over why polio virus seems to have little effect on test animals.
Vaccines are a vital tool of the medical armoury but used more carefully and with full acceptance for problems we might find the true place for most vaccines and I suspect that would be the dustbin.
We have known for a long time why and how people get TB, measles or smallpox. One lady got smallpox in the UK and above her was the storage of smallpox germs.
With polio we have been puzzled but finally assumed maybe incorrectly that the blame would go to the polio virus.
Today the mainstream blame for autism is ourselves or our faulty genes nd this is clearly wrong.
If we could only find what causes, autism, why AIDS began or why health in general in the USA is so much worse than nearly every other modern nation then perhaps the arguments would stop along with profits and exorbitant wages to those at the top in the medical profession and industry.
Finally autism in the USA stands at more than 260 000 or a 911 disaster every day plus a large plane crash every day for a year or more.
The costs born to families are now more than any profit from the entire vaccine industry and many illnesses were almost gone, as said, before vaccines came.
TB vaccines are the opposite to smallpox in not stopping a worldwide increase in this illness and crying out for a vaccine that actually works.
John – autism can’t happen at “any time” – it is specifically a disorder that begins before age 3. If it begins after that, it is not diagnosable as autism, though it may have similar symptoms.
Mainstream science DOES believe that environmental issues relate to autism, at least in some cases. Most, however, do not believe that vaccines per se are the issues that lead to autism.
Meanwhile, I’m not sure I understand your reference to teenaged girls being paralyzed. Are you saying that we’re having a “hidden” epidemic of polio?
Lisa
Mr. Fryer-Chemist is talking about Gardasil. After 20 million plus doses had been administered between summer 2006 and Jan. 1, 2009, the CDC confirmed 19 deaths had occurred within 280 days following the shot. To vaccine rejectionists, always ones to confuse correlation with causation, this is a smoking gun.
The sad but inconvenient truth is that the mortality rate for the “Gardasil girls” is statistically no different that the rate for teenage girls before Gardasil was administered. It would be astonishing if no teenage girl ever died within 280 days of getting a Gardasil shot, given the large number of shots administered.
Although my son didn’t have regressive autism, he was born healthy with autism. He does have health issues, but there is no way to determine if that’s related to autism or the percentage of all the other people who also have the same issues but no autism. Autism doesn’t make my child unhealthy.
The flu jab has not been concretely linked to Alzheimers. Alzheimers is a form of dementia, and people have been experiencing dementia during aging for a long time.
Environmental factors have always been acknowledged, even by me however it is not the thought that it’s the sole cause and if it was, then more people would be experiencing the same things.
Educating via the web often is one-side information, and often with out valid links to back up what is stated, for instance your claim about the flu vaccine.
You can locate the strain of polio, so I’m not sure why if any are paralyzed today they’d keep secret the cause and why do you only mention girls? Polio affected boys as well. Polio was the most feared childhood disease there is, and it crippled many children. I worked with a man who had polio as a child, it affected the muscles of his throat.
So in the UK they just have boxes laying around with smallpox germs? How horribly scary. I’ll have to look that one up for myself.
Any child can be born with anything. Even if a child is born healthy later on some thing could happen. Not one parent knows the cost of raising a child and if I spend more due to my child having autism, why wouldn’t I spend it? What purpose is it to complain about the cost? Had I been in a car accident or my child accidentally drowned but was revived, I’d have no one to complain to about that cost or the on-going developmental delays and what he’d have to relearn. My child isn’t on a feeding or breathing machines, he doesn’t require RX’s to live or full time medical monitors, his legs and arms move freely and he can blink both eyes. He doesn’t require painful scary medical treatment either. So he’s not so good at verbally expressing himself, is horrible in a social setting, not very good in academics but neither was I.
I would like to find prevention but I personally believe it goes deeper than vaccines or the first flu vaccine would had done it for a generation. Or the first MMR, or the first vaccine with Thimerosal. If we do not have an open mind to all area’s of cause, we may miss something and besides that it wont help that prevention for those who have autism and had no vaccine at all. I’m not here to talk about Aides, either. The arguments didn’t start with the profits and exorbitant wages to those at the top in the medical profession and industry, and that of course is not why there is no answer for autism yet. There’s also no answer for many cancers either. The human body is a little more complicated than going to the moon.
John, I too thought organophosphates were the undoing of school aged children, lowering their IQ’s by providing bug free classrooms. In fact I think I continue to believe this.
I agree with what you said about polio, short of an opening to a muscle the disease would pass unnoticed through the nasal passages, with mild disease. Yes, a doctor delivering a shot of pen or b12 could induce it as well as the vaccine jabs .
Coxsackie is the new polio,and we will hear little about it until someone brings us the “vaccine”.
I’ve heard mothers say, ” I would rather say my son has autism than my son is dead”, this is the answer to what they believe is an anti vaccine movement. Well sadly the death rate for their sons is twice that of normals, and the life expectancy itself is only 46. So their argument is sad.
If anyone does the math, the exponential increase suggests there will BE NO NORMAL CHILDREN IN 20Yrs.
Certainly there are toxins out there, such as the organophosphates, that are damaging our children, and few would read a MSDS and deny this, however, so many can’t be wrong, we have diseases such as rubella that WE KNOW cause autism, and we continue to inject them into our female population not knowing what circulating “debris” will effect her future children. Perhaps it’s synergy, perhaps the lowering of glutathione, the build up of immune system depleting metals, the injection of viral material all work together, but nevertheless it’s happening and it’s a serious issue that shouldn’t be covered up by those in it for profit. I recall studies showing the tcells after the dpt at a level of an aids patient in some cases, do we check this? No, we follow shortly with live viruses. It doesn’t meet the bar for common sense! I see no future , at this rate, as I said,in 20 years there will be NO NORMAL CHILDREN!
I would rather say my son has autism than my son is dead”, this is the answer to what they believe is an anti vaccine movement. Well sadly the death rate for their sons is twice that of normals, and the life expectancy itself is only 46. So their argument is sad.
Please explain the mortality rate twice that of of ‘normals’ and life span of age 46? Is that based on a child with autism?
Where is that evidence that ‘WE KNOW’ Rubella causes autism?
Covered up by those in it for profit is the answer to what they believe is an anti vaccine movement. It’s an easy statement to make, easy for some to believe too but little proof to it.
ANB thanks for clarifying that, it makes sense now. Gardasil is not part of the childhood vaccines and autism theories, so it only muddles the grounds of people trying to sort through all of this. Parents mainly are making a choice with that vaccine and as always, they should research their choices. Same with that Flu vaccine. Blame vaccines for everything under the moon then of course add autism to it with that line of reasoning would make sense.
Yes, that is the figure I have read. No you won’t find autism on many death certificates, because the incident, accident, seizure, etc., will be the noted cause. I read this recently and wasn’t as surprised as you seem to be, I know of two myself,that died because of their autism, not to forget Jett Travolta, whose certificate likely said, seizure.
Yes, in 1964 during a pandemic of rubella there was a sudden increase in autism. HOWEVER!!! Many children recovered! What does this suggest? Their bodies had a mechanism with which they could clear the virus and repair. Perhaps we have taken this away from this generation. Again..synergy..unknown..but there..
Any where you look, those with autism have a normal life span. Let’s not forget Jett Travolta died of a seizure, which a child can have a seizure disorder with or with out autism. With autism it would be a co-morbid. We also can not forget there is no eveidence other than web sources that the child had autism at all. If a child ded of pneumonia or asthma and also had autism, one cant say autism was related to that death. If a 10 year old with autism drowned, one could say it may have been related to autism, however many children die per year of drowning and do not have autism.
The death rate of those with autism, as you described it, is nothing but scare tactics.
Prior to the counting od autism, making rates, what do you think the rate was in 1964? And where is that linking evidence those with autism in 1964 recovered?
I believe that Jett Travolta died from a blow to the head which occurred when he fell in the shower as the result of a seizure. He may or may not have been autistic.
So far as I am aware, there is no correlation whatever between autism and higher mortality rates. I suppose it’s possible that people with autism have a higher rate of accidents… but I can’t imagine it’s statistically significant.
Lisa
http://www.lifeexpectancy.com/articles/a2.pdf
This isn’t quite as bad, children studied over a thirteen year period.
Yes, Jett Travolta died of a seizure, yes, that’s my point, cause of death is never listed as autism. I do believe in the news, end of July, John Travolta told in interview that yes his son was autistic. Maybe bad media, perhaps tab? However, I think it was the chicago tribune.
Don’t forget the rubella induced autism, and how it cleared their systems, imo, that is worth some research.
Barbara, I’m still a bit confused. Naturally autism wouldn’t be listed as a cause of death, since autism doesn’t cause death. Period.
If you’re saying that autism can be a contributing factor to a circumstance that led to death, I’d agree… but that’s like saying that someone was killed by a fly because they were distracted by the fly’s buzzing while driving, swerved, and hit a tree.
Yes, the fly was a contributing factor. But the cause of death was the car crash.
Lisa
Autism wasn’t listed as death because medically, autism isn’t a killer.
The Travolta’s to this day say their child never had autism. That topic was previously covered on this site.
That is a cool PDF file, one can see the cause of death was all medically related and the highest rate wasn’t seizures, either. Anyone without autism could also die of those same 11 causes of death.
For any new parent reading this, if a child was to die of anything, it’s very possible they would had anyway even if your child didn’t have autism.
Yes, in 1964 during a pandemic of rubella there was a sudden increase in autism. HOWEVER!!! Many children recovered! What does this suggest?
It suggests you are getting your information FROM! whale.to!!!
Rubella can lead to congenital rubella syndrome (CRS) but only when a pregnant woman contracts the disease. Rubella is usually mild in children, but they can still pass the disease onto others.
There was in fact a pandemic of rubella between 1962 and 1965, starting in Europe and spreading to the United States. In the years 1964-65, the United States had an estimated 12.5 million rubella cases which in turn led to 11,000 miscarriages or therapeutic abortions and 20,000 cases of congenital rubella syndrome. Of those, 2,100 died as neonates, 12,000 were deaf, 3,580 were blind and 1,800 were mentally retarded. I’m wondering of which area’s listed, there was recovery? It should also be noted all of the above was contracting the live virus from another person; has nothing to do with vaccines and with vaccines, you do not at all see those numbers in deaf, blind and MR or of course, dead. This is why that vaccine was created. Of the 12.5 million pandemic, 50,480 had horrible life-long medical consequences.
That of course is not an increase of autism in 1964 of which no one was counting autism rates during that time period anyway. Again, all it is, is muddling the vaccine issue into seemingly more-than-it-should-be complicated.
I know a woman who was born with CRS in the mid-60s. I was good friends with her brother in high school. The woman’s mother is still regretful that the rubella vaccine was released only a few years after Chrissy was born.
Chrissy, who still lives with her mother, functions emotionally and intellectually at a five year old level.
One would have to be terribly misinformed to oppose the rubella vaccine.
Sandy quote”In the years 1964-65, the United States had an estimated 12.5 million rubella cases which in turn led to 11,000 miscarriages or therapeutic abortions and 20,000 cases of congenital rubella syndrome. Of those, 2,100 died as neonates, 12,000 were deaf, 3,580 were blind and 1,800 were mentally retarded. I’m wondering of which area’s listed, there was recovery? It should also be noted all of the above was contracting the live virus from another person; has nothing to do with vaccines and with vaccines, you do not at all see those numbers in deaf, blind and MR or of course, dead. This is why that vaccine was created. Of the 12.5 million pandemic, 50,480 had horrible life-long medical consequences. ”
Sandy we don’t know how many miscarriages have been caused by vaccines, or sids for that matter, but we do know that there is in excess of 400 thousand cases of autism, and SHAMEFULLY the “powers that be” deliberately misdirect studies looking for a genetic link. LUDICROUS with these numbers this is a stupid and shameful waste of time , money and a deliberate imo ,crime. With those numbers, and autism now at 1 in a 100 , worse numbers for boys, how can anyone with a scientific thought consider genetics? As I said before, do the math, the rate it’s growing suggests we will have no “neurotypical” children in twenty years, we have damaged an entire generation and continue to do so. Look for something in the environment, the vaccines,the sonograms, the mercury, tylenol, organophosphates, engineered food sources, milk, but give up on genetics, it’s just not the case.
Autism having only a DSM for diagnosis, not an actual medical test, we really have no idea just how many have autism or something else. Not many women get any vaccines while pregnant to claim miscarriages due to vaccines, but the references was that of contracting Rubella that you brought to attention. SID’s has not been linked to vaccines either. Have any evidence of that “powers that be”? Just because you disagree with any particular study does not mean that study was ever deliberately misdirected, except for Wakefield who clearly was misdirected.
Don’t give up on genetics. Cancer can be genetic, heart issues like high blood pressure or strokes. MS as well. Not to consider genetics is blindly forgetting a whole lot of kids with autism. I suppose those chromosomes recently found was a misdirected study too? Science every day is getting closer and closer to answer’s, and one day no matter which side you stand on, we will all have to accept those answers and face the facts there just is no one there to sue or be so angry at.
http://virology-online.com/viruses/Rubella5.htm
RUBELLA CAUSES AUTISM! Can we really feel it’s safe injecting it into females in their child bearing years?
Yes, I’m angry, it wasn’t rocket science, it took a few med searches, it persists.
So should you get your child immunized? Sure, let’s say he’s born to a mom who has vaccine rubella, he then gets a dose of thimerosal in his hepb,his immmune system is immediately lowered, and continues to be throughout the first two years of immunizations. His body can’t clear the virus. If the vaccines don’t work because of circulating maternal antibodies, they will be more than happy to give him another. What happens to the rubella? The mmr often shows high titers to measles in these children, yet no titers to rubella? What could that suggest? I’m asking because I don’t know, I have a grandson that this happened to, their solution was to give him another mmr, we said no, because his measle titers were ten fold what they should have been and he spent five months doubled over in stomach pain after the first shot.
You don’t have to yell.
I am sorry that happened to your grandson, truly. I think however you said he recovered where as your son did not?
What part of Rubella causes autism? Pre natal or contracted during childhood?
You’re pretty set on Rubella, I understand that, but doesn’t that then shut the door on any other potential causes to autism?
True, my son has Crohns. I didn’t mean to shout, it was more of an epiphany, that there was documentation that while we know rubella as a disease caused autism, I, didn’t know the live portion of the vaccine could persist for four years. How can any study address this? How can we begin to have studies done to address the condition of the mother and not the autistic child? Can it then be preventable, by identifying these mothers and giving their children time to clear the virus before starting their vaccine schedule? Is this why some are having luck with waiting until the children are older, as old as two before starting. Is my grandchild less ill because he was four when he received that shot?
Sandy quote…What part of Rubella causes autism? Pre natal or contracted during childhood?
It would have to be prenatal, with disease persisting during the first year or so? If this is to make sense.
I haven’t shut the door, I became interested when the foster grant company was implicated in the cluster of people, living in the area surrounding the company ,giving birth to autistic children, in some cases next generation in those that had moved away. That has always been a “stumper”. I have a friend who firmly believes it’s caused by plastic toxins. I don’t argue because I believe there are so many unknowns, as with leukemia, it presents as one illness yet has many causes.
btw, I’m very concerned about the hpv shot, it seems to be capable of inducing lesions in those that had unknown active disease along with miscarriages, birth defects, and a myriad of health problems in the young women.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1475830
I understand your fear of the iron lung Lisa, in my day it was what nightmares were literally made of.
However, we learned something, injections often caused paralysis, vitamins, vaccines, antibiotics, all caused great damage that could have been avoided . No one knew, they know now. Coxsackie needs to be watched, it’s similar to polio and I will say out of the current diseases that are shared among children , this one seems to be getting more virulent and dangerous. It’s contagious for six weeks in feces, and waterborne, leaving it the same kind of “swimming” threat shared with polio. With it I’ve seen myocarditis, aseptic meningitis, and although I haven’t seen a syndrome like paralytic poliomyelitis, I have heard it does exist. There is information suggesting it was responsible for some of the cases in the fifties that were diagnosed as polio.
Rubella has been around since the 1800’s, only more widely known for it’s large outbreaks. Once vaccines started, we have not seen much congenital rubella and ‘we’ do not know rubella causes autism. MR is not the same as autism. Congenital rubella is not autism. “we” do not know rubella couses autism and there is no evidence it ever did. Your idea of mother’s who had the vaccine while a youngster and then carrying it over to her unborn child also then would cause the unborn to be deaf, blind, miscarried or MR. It wouldn’t only cause one of the side effects it’s known for. Also vaccines at a later date, depends on which theory you’re going with. Earlier you suggested Thimerosal.
Once you have the chickenpox, that virus stays in you, too. That’s not the vaccines fault but that of the virus itself. For any who had the chickenpox, you then have a risk of painful shingles later in life and while having an outbreak of shingles, you’re contagious to others. So maybe rubella just stays in you like the chickenpox does. Maybe it has more to do with the chickenpox virus, since that stays in you life long, not just four years as you suggest of rubella. Also, waiting until the child is 2 for vaccines doesn’t coincide with your 4 years the virus is there in the body. You’re also not understanding why the ages for the vaccine schedule are there, and it is clear autism happens with or without vaccines.
I’m not so interested in the Gardasil vaccines other than to say 11 and 12 year old’s shouldn’t be having miscarriages or being pregnant to have birth defects. How does one detect an unknown active disease? I had lesions when I was a kid, and when I was a young adult I had I had 3 miscarriages. Those things can and do happen. These days and the sexual habits of young people worry me more than that vaccine does, but that vaccine is a choice a parent also has to make, based on real clear evidence of side effects.
I’m not going to get into another rubella topic when it’s a topic about all vaccines. I wish you and your family a lot of luck and remember your experience doesn’t mean it’s the majorities.
Sandy, I have no idea why rubella has been measured in vaccinees up to four years, I don’t know why , if it causes autism, it only causes autism. We can all hypothesize ,but none of us have the method available to us to prove anything, we have to depend on the scientists and the studies. Interesting when looking for such studies, I continue to find that there is a little over a 1% “theoretical” chance of developing crs. I doubt measuring low level vaccine antibodies would be the same process as measuring for the actual disease. Perhaps it is the vaccine antibodies working against the fetus, not active disease?
We do have strong medical evidence that the actual illness does cause autism. Again the numbers were small ,and were not considered part of what was labeled crs.
Yes I believe thimerosal is involved, it would be that first “jab”, at one day old that starts to take down the immune system. It all problematic because ,likely, and just my opinion, there is synergy involved, and studying “one” component will not solve this.
example, the talk of breast feeding causing autism, again a live virus present in breast milk may play some part..
I could be wrong, but vaccines do not contain antibodies, vaccines help build antibodies in the body to help build the immunity.
Today there would be little chance of developing congenital rubella syndrome since there isn’t MMR rejection every where, plus you need the exporsure from someone to a pregnant woman. Prior to the vaccine, in just the year you sited, 20,000 cases of congenital rubella syndrome is nothing to ingore or forget.
That first infant jab doesn’t contain Thimerosal any more, and not all babies get that at a day old, my son never did. For those kids that did get it at day old, for many it did not leave them taking down their immune system. People assume infants have no immune system at all. Infants have their mothers immune system and providing the mother is healthy, so then would be the infant. That’s why infant don’t often get sick until about age 6 months.
Hypothesizing is fine, making choices off it is another thing all together. I could stop driving my car because it could cause serious injury, however what are the odds?
…I have a grandson that this happened to, their solution was to give him another mmr, we said no, because his measle titers were ten fold what they should have been…
BarbJ, what did your DAN doctor say is the normal reference range for measles titers?
Best evidence tells us that people are immune to measles if they have an antibody “titre” of at least 120 mIU/ml. There is no “normal” level, although less ethical clinicians may “interpret” the minimal acceptable (or “immune”) level as the “normal” level.
Studies looking at healthy adults a few months after vaccination have reported antibody levels of over 1000 mIU/ml, which would be “over eight times normal”, by this reckoning.
Antibody titres vary widely, depending on how recently the person was vaccinated and how well the vaccine stimulated the immune system and how recently they’ve been exposed to wild-type measles (or, in some cases, vaccine-strain measles in a close family contact). That’s why there is a “minimum” level and not a “normal range”.
Your anecdotal evidence tells us that some children with autism have high titer levels. But anecdotes also show that children can have autism and have non-detectable measles titres. So we we have stories for and against such a relationship. What would Jenny McCarthy say about that?
Sandy,I agree, antibodies from the vaccine I would think would be different than antibodies aquired from experiencing the disease.
20,000 CRS is a terrrible number, 400,000 autistic children is a catastrophic number
ANB I really can honestly say I have no idea what Jenny McCarthy has to say, or what Whale has to say. I don’t read them, the closest to a “celebrity” that I have read is the info provided by Robert Kennedy Jr. , I believe he is a bright , decent , honorable man.
No one seemed concerned about the high rubeolla titers, the concern was that there seemed to be no titers to either rubella or mumps. It was MY concern, I researched it for a few days, trying to determine what most children would present as compared to him.
Sandy I hope you are correct, we were to believe it was removed in 1999, yet it wasn’t. If it’s not in the vaccines now, and it played a part in a subset of autism, we should see the numbers going down. Too soon to tell, we have to wait until these babies are a few years old. If it added fuel , let’s say to the rubella association, those should lessen in numbers , yet not necessarily stop. I like the comment about immune systems being the moms, that should be considered the first line of protection, we really shouldn’t have “disturbed” that. I fear HIB, but ya know what, I had my daughter immunized in I believe it was 1983 and it gave her HIB! One of the grandchildren was vaccinated against this two years ago, that shot was recalled for contamination.
Let’s just make these shots “CLEAN” first, and slow down the schedule a bit to allow for that nice birth immunity to do it’s job and,giving rubella vaccine to young females just seems to be a bad idea.
If (Thimerosal) is not in the vaccines now, and it played a part in a subset of autism, we should see the numbers going down. Too soon to tell, we have to wait until these babies are a few years old.
How is it too soon to tell? Thimerosal has been absent from scheduled pediatric vaccines since 2001. Most of today’s 3-5 year olds have never received a TCV. And the rates for all ASDs haven’t declined. Why is that Barb?
Was removed in manufacturing…but..how long was the shelf life, how long were they in use..I would like answers to this..does anyone know? Some, such as flu vaccines continue to contain thimerosal.
That year ANB gave is the year of ‘the’ expiration dates- but I think it was Nov 2002. How do we know this? The lot numbers and dates are kept for all vaccines and are part of any child’s records, by the way. That shelf life question doesn’t pertain. The actual removing Thimeroal process started in the 90’s. Everyone was waiting for that 2002 year to come around and when it did, some sites had to rethink their theories. We also cannot count the flu vaccine, which come Thimerosal free.
2009 minus 2002 is 7 years old. By 7, you’d know if that child had autism or not. Your suggestion of clean vaccines has already been done, Thimerosal-wise. As you stated yourself, the autism rates are huge and still growning. One now needs to look beyond Thimerosal.
I would like the real timeline on this, I’ve found a lot of descrepancies, and will continue to look.
I’m not here to prove anything to anyone. You can believe what you want. Many sites out there will say otherwise since it doesn’t fit with their theories. That time line was acknowledged by Kennedy and Kirby back in 2005 when those children would had been 3 and the atuism rates didn’t drop. That’s also about the time other theories popped up, like dissecting the contents of vaccines to find the cause for autism.
I have to say Sandy, if you are correct then I am wrong. I would expect ,if rubella is causing autism that thimerosal played a part, I wouldn’t expect the removal of thimerosal to halt rubella/autism, however I would expect without the immune system lowering effects there would be less rubella related autism. I would expect the autism rate to drop to the level it was before the introduction of hep b at birth. I would like for example to compare the rate among five year olds in 1990 to five year olds in 2001.
The year is correct, and I cant tell you how many times people not accepting the lack of evidence in the Thimerosal theory bring up that expiration date. Some even go so far as stating doctors were using their stock of expired vaccines on kids in order to give doubt. However, since lot numbers, makers and dates are kept, we know these statements are imposible to be true. If ever the vaccine makers did anything right plus the CDC, is maintaining those records. You can also ask for this info from your own child’s doc. I did way back when. Not every vaccine maker even used Thimerosal, and one would need those records to even be considered for a law suit. My kid was already 3 in 2002 but none of his vaccines had Thimerosal.
It was there after 2002 all of a sudden “they replaced Thimerosal with aluminum” anti freeze, embalming stuff and so on. The fact is, not one person, site org. or scientist has yet to say “by golly, this is it in the vaccines that does it”. You can not maker something greener when you cant show why it is green already. I don’t know why people say green anyway, the term makes me think of the Simpson’s dad working at that nuke plant and him glowing green.
The thing about researching anything, is not basing it on what I say or what the dreaded CDC says since no one ever believes what they say to be honest, look for other sites not run by parents. I found those sites with my search engine, so can anyone. You need to come to your own conclusion that makes sense to you.
Sounds like someone has been drinking the AutismNewsBeat Koolaid!
There is nothing “controversial” about this statement:
…autism is not a lifelong incurable genetic disorder but one that is biomedically definable and treatable…
Did you see the studies that came out showing that about 35-40% of kids receiving an ASD diagnosis can eventually improve to the point that they lose the diagnosis? [National Survey of Children's Health (NSCH), supported by the Health Resources and Services Administration (HRSA) of the US Department of Health and Human Services.]
So it’s not controversial to suggest that Autism can be treated or even cured.
What is actually controversial is an assertion that ASD is “genetic”. First, nobody thinks that Autism is an autosomal genetic disorder (like PKU or sickle cell). That means Autism is already KNOWN to NOT be a genetic disorder in the classic sense. Already scientists have resigned themselves to merely looking for genetic “markers” and “associations”.
Now science has looked deep, far, and wide for genetic “markers” and “associations”, and has come up empty handed.
The AGRE and CHOP studies released in Nature & JAMA back in April of this year found almost zilch. You will recall that these were the largest (and most expensive) genomic studies since the Human Genome Project itself. They were exquisitely sensitive studies with massive sample sizes — looking for any association whatsoever, including SNPs, CNVs, etc. They found only a single positive result which rose slightly above the p-level for insignificance. That specific “positive” finding was never seen in previous studies (suggesting it is very possibly a statistical aberrations). Moreover, the AGRE/CHOP studies failed to replicate any previous findings, which suggests that previous “findings” were statistical aberrations.
In short, it appears that all “findings” in all gene studies thus far (including the massive – and massively-expensive – AGRE/CHOP studies) have found ZERO, ZIP, NADA in terms of genetic association factors in ASD.
I take no pleasure in this — I was hoping there would be a nice neat genetic susceptability factor (or factors) that would lead to treatment(s), prevention, cure(s), or at least some insight into the environmental triggers.
My point is that anyone claiming that Autism is “genetic” is making a very controversial “faith-based” claim, which lacks scientific support.
At least the allegation that vaccines cause autism has some scientific support. (The Hannah Poling case).
It is sophistry to equate the vaccine-autism causality nexus to UFOs landing on your lawn or to bad luck resulting from walking under ladders.
I cannot tell whether those are Lisa’s words or if she is quoting someone. I hope she is quoting someone, because these “arguments” are not up to Lisa’s usual high standards for neutrality and objectivity, rather than opinion and subjectivity.
Very best regards,
-Bob
It has been, imo, a shameful waste of time and money promoting studies to prove it’s genetic, when clearly the numbers indicate, YES, if you are a human and a male you are soon to be doomed.You are soon to become a lesson in history, the lost sex in our species. Match the money and the effort to what the children all have in common in their environment and this would have been solved. I strongly suspect rubella, because it’s easy, it’s a disease known to cause autism as a wild virus, and would neatly fit that it causes it in the womb of some vaccinated mothers. Can it be that easy? Is money being spent to work against the truth?
Just as studies pertaining to vaccines, studies pertaining to chromosomes have found links towards autism and that is not nada except to those who do not want to accept the findings. If there wasn’t genetics involved, then there would be equal amounts of genders with autism.
Finally if it’s not your money spent on studies, who cares what they decide to study. My kids autism isn’t due to vaccines, I’d want an answer for hisautism just like the rest of you.
I was just looking at a graph, it showed the rates of vaccinees for mmr as a pretty stable line, starting around 1980 ..above it showed a line moving quickly as to a peak in a mountain..the conclusion was..if mmr caused autism then we would expect the lines to be similar, and while mmr recipients remained stable autism rose…okay..it was soon discovered by 1980, if I recall, that all of the vaccinated babies in the 70’s were at risk and needed to be revaccinated, many of these children were teens and young adults..I would like to see a chart comparing women who had these late “boosters” in comparison with autism..I believe we are not using the right comparisons, example of this would also be, comparing children born to vaccinated moms against those born to moms who hadn’t been vaccinated. Why wouldn’t all children have autism if it wasn’t genetic? Co-factorsinplace, time, other exposures, there could be many reasons why some escape. Sandy, I think it’s fair to say you didn’t receive an mmr before your pregnancies, but were you exposed to a child possibly shedding live virus from his vaccines?
Yes Sandy!! Rubella was known to cause chromosome breaks. Again it’s more and more looking like rubella. I can’t pull up the article,and I no longer have a membership, maybe someone else on here can.
Am J Dis Child. 1965;110(4):473-476.
Since this article does not have an abstract, we have provided the first 150 words of the full text PDF and any section headings.
CURRENT interest in the effect of viruses on chromosome morphology in man has resulted from the observations made on cultured leukocytes from measles-infected patients1,2 and studies of human fibroblast cultures infected with simian virus 40.3,4 Hampar and Ellison had previously shown that in hamster cell cultures herpes simplex infection produced chromosome changes similar to those reported with x-radiation and chemical mutagens.5 A relationship between the cytologic changes noted with these virus infections of cells and neoplastic changes has been inferred from these studies.
It seemed tempting to seek evidence that rubella virus altered chromosome morphology in vivo and in turn to relate such effects to the teratologic disturbances noted in rubella-infected fetuses. We were particularly encouraged by the reports of a mild form of chromosome damage (chromatid breaks) after rubella virus infection of human diploid fibroblasts.6 In the recent rubella epidemic a number of infants have . . . [Full Text PDF of this Article]
Rubella in a pre natal of course messes with such things, it’s a itsy bitsy developing pre natal. That is why it caused many to be blind, deaf, MR and dead. The thing you’re forgetting here is prenatal exposure, and childhood exposure which didn’t have those defects at all. What you’re saying, more or less, natural exposure or vaccine exposure to the mother in turn will cause autism in their child- pre natal maybe but since if a child contracted rubella, they’d recover with little side affects compared to pre natal. The thing is, vaccines prevents CRS and once that happened, you did not see deaf, blind, MR or dead. So having the virus within you, you build antibodies or you’d end up with reoccurig rubella.
If you look long enough and compare enough things, anything will be an answer for ‘you’. It seems to be you’re trying to find answers for your own family and you’re clearly stuck on rubella. I hope one day you find the answers you’re looking for.
No, actually it IS my money. My tax dollars (and yours) are going to fund the vast majority of genetics research. Money going to genetic research is unavailable for other research.
The boys > girls issue is not “genetic”. At least not in the sense that you think. Other than the greater prevalence in boys [ca. 4:1], genetic associations (copy number variations, single nucleotide polymorphisms, etc.) have not been found on the “Y” chromosome. It appears that the difference in rates and severity of ASD is tightly linked with testosterone levels. Studies have shown, for example, that girls with ASD tend to have higher native testosterone levels than their unaffected or less-affected counterparts. Likewise, boys with higher levels of testosterone appear to be mores susceptible to ASD, and more severe symptomology.
This is one of the reasons why ethyl mercury remains a leading suspect. Mercury’s neurotoxicity (and neurotoxicity of other heavy metals) is significantly enhanced in the presence of testosterone.
Curious — do you know for certain that your kid’s autism is NOT due to vaccines? Was your son unvaccinated, yet he became autistic anyway? Were you unvaccinated as well? This is exactly the kind of information we need. What is the rate of autism in unvaccinated kids like your son, versus the rate in vaccinated kids.
My 3-1/2 y.o. developed regressive autism at 18mos. after multiple vaccines in a single office visit. We spread out the shots when my 1-1/2 y.o. came along. He did fine until his 9 month shots, then had a fever, stopped “talking”, stopped eye contact, etc. We didn’t give him (the 1-1/2 y.o.) any more shots and he has gradually returned to neurotypical. He is doing great now and I’m not about to give him another shot. I guess it’s “twice-burned, thrice-shy” in my case.
Just to be clear, I have no idea what triggers autism either. I think vaccines are a leading suspect (could be mercury preservatives, aluminum adjuvants, too many vaccines at once overwhelming mitochondrial reserves, stealth virus, SV40, or other contaminants). It appears that Gulf War Syndrome is triggered by the Anthrax vaccine, so a similar metabolic and neurological disorder could express itself as “autism” in children.
I also think that overuse of pitocin and overuse of folic acid are plausible causes for autism.
There are lots and lots of potential environmental triggers — and it may be different triggers in different kids.
Look, we all agree — or so I assume — that autism is on the rise. It’s not just “relaxed diagnostic criteria” — there really has been a huge increase in the rate of autism since we were young.
If ASD is NOT on the rise, then it may simply be “neurodiversity” – a naturally-occurring variation or defect. HOWEVER, if ASD IS ON THE RISE, then there must be something in the environment causing it, because GENES haven’t changed that much in a single generation.
I say, take 50% of the funding from genetics research and redirect it toward environmental factor research. That seems to be the most promising area for finding a cause and a cure for autism. Moreover, we get a lot more “bang for the buck” doing environmental factor research instead of the very expensive gene research.
Sincere best wishes to you all and thanks for all of your comments — very interesting to read what everyone on all “sides” thinks, and why.
-Bob
My own family? No, I see so few normal boys these days , boys who aren’t measured on the “autism scale” boys that just clearly are not whole. Everywhere, for example, this summer camp, the leader said, “is it me or is something seriously wrong with boys these days”, another mother said, “it doesn’t seem like any five year old boys can speak clearly”, a kindergarten teacher said, three years in a row she’s had three autistic boys in her class that are assigned aids, another kindergarten teacher said, “there are two of us and we divide the children so one of us doesn’t get all of the problem boys”, no ,aside from those labeled with autism there is something very wrong going on. My friend who thinks the problem is all caused by platex nursers, may be on to something, heck if I know, but for me, rubella seems to be very suspect. The cdc report I read today says there is a theoretical chance that 1.7% of the children of vaccinee mothers “could” present with a kind of CRS, suggests to me that it’s here and for some reason being ignored.
Bob, I agree, it is our money, and we should push for it to be spent in another direction. More bang for the buck, I like that thinking, we need to speak to our officials and push harder to get these studies underway. I do believe, in 20 yrs there will be no “neurotypical” boys if it continues at the present rate.
Bob – you ask “do you know for certain that your kid’s autism is NOT due to vaccines?”
Like Sandy, I would say “vaccines did not cause my son’s autism.” Why not? Because he had no visible reaction to his vaccines outside of crying at the moment of the injection plus a little puffiness. He had no regression, no fever, no seizures.
If you were to say “but you can’t PROVE vaccines weren’t involved,” I’d answer “no, and I can’t prove that the alignment of the stars wasn’t involved. Or the grass in the backyard. Or the weather. Or the cell phone. Or the TV set. Or fumes from the car. Or the rug on the floor.”
In short, if I were to consider all the things that COULD have been involved (because I can’t prove they weren’t), I’d have to consider every individual aspect of our world.
All or none of which could be a factor in my son’s development.
Lisa
Bob~ I never said my son was unvaccinated and I am quite sure I’ve made it known many times he is vaccinated and right on schedule, too. Previously I said I had obtained my son’s vaccines records. I am sure just as those who are very sure vaccines caused their child’s autism, that I am sure vaccines did not cause my child’s. How do I know this? Since it only pertains to my child, that info would have no bearing on yours or to anyone and I’m sure there’d be an attempt to convince me otherwise or require me to convince you vaccines had no part. I would share that info with a study cause where it would make a difference. Not all kids have regressive autism, and mine is one of them. I also know there are family members with ASD that never had any vaccines, my son’s father included. I also never had any vaccines as a child, my mother and whole family was dead against them due to a cousin of mine who did have a reaction- high fever, unresponsive but surprisingly, that cousin does not have ASD in any form. I also have a few cousins whose children have autism as well, no vaccines for them because all us kids grew up with vaccine fear long before it was ever popular to have that fear.
You may not see the need for genetic studies, that’s fine but don’t tell me I cant see there is a need for them and advocate for that. I have never suggested they don’t continue studies for a vaccine link, I say the more the better and get it done but except the findings. I’m not sure why people feel the need to close doors that may have answers for others.
and…Bob for what it’s worth, we did the same with one grandchild, he lost language and eye contact , we stopped vaccinating, he isn’t exactly fine, he has horrific meltdowns, hasn’t given me a hug since the vaccines, but does well in school and behaves well in school. He hugs his mother and his baby brother, he is very , very large, wears a size 8 men’s shoe, is almost 5ft tall, is overweight and is eight years old. He has one friend who is very similar to him, and only that friend since kindergarten. I have more fears for the totally unvaccinated baby brother, I want him in a bubble. He is 18 months old, sings the barney song, talks like he’s three, is very ,very happy. Should all kids be like him? Were they in the generation before we did this to them?
Sandy , because there was autism before this most recent “explosion” certainly a genetic condition such as the mitochondrial one with Poling may very well account for a small subset. Genetics in that case would count as a co-factor, autism could well have been triggered by either a wild virus or vaccine.
my kid doesn’t have mitochondrial and neither do I. The only real factor in the Poling case, again, is over- jab for catch-up vaccines- sine that child missed the regular schedule due to always being ill. Even with out mitochondrial, that many vaccines in one day would harm anyone.
So it’s not controversial to suggest that Autism can be treated or even cured.
It’s magical thinking to suggest at autism is curable. I’ll change my mind when somebody presents proof.
Doesn’t it seem odd to you, Bob, that the medical literature isn’t chock full of verifiable cases of autism being cured with bio-medical treatments such as chelation, hyperbaric oxygen, chemical castration drugs, anti-fungals, anti-virals, and magic cleansing rays?
I believe very young children can recover from brain injury, if this is to corelate to autism we must find the “cause” . Once the cause is found , removed from the system, it wouldn’t be magical to expect the mind to heal itself. If it’s a metal find a chelation therapy, if it’s a virus boost the immune system,if it’s an unknown allergen find it, I can’t think that it’s hopeless unless we contiue to deny the cause . That I suppose is what I find so wrong, an acceptance of this injury as hopeless.
No one is denying the cause. We cant deny something we do not know. Everyone wants to find the cause(s) for autism and once that is truly found, there will be no denying. Just keep in mind the cause for autism in your family may not be that of other’s.
I disagree that autism is a brain injury, however many brain injuries do not have full recovery no matter the age of the person. But if we go by that way of thinking, as ANB suggested, with all the interventions bio-wise, why isn’t there mass recovery? It woul dmean those interventions are being offered blindly. They may find out in the end, those with metal poisoning, allergens are not autism. Heavy metal poisoning would not be autism anyway, it’s known already to neuro damaging.
Autism isn’t brain damage?
I don’t believe there is magic out there in some herb, pill or therapy, I can’t imagine we can fix anything unless we know what needs fixing, and we don’t. In the future this is my hope, identify the underlying cause and take it out of the equation, then go to work on repair. Fight the virus, remove the metals, if it’s genetic as you seem to think, then let’s find a use for stem cells to reset and repair. Stem cells may well be the future for autism, that would be right up there with “magic”, and the forever optimist that I am, I’m hoping we will wake up this entire damaged generation with science one day. I can imagine a twenty year old walking out of a fog to experience the world as he should. First we need to fight for the studies that are needed.
I don’t consider my kid damaged, autism or not or generation or not. I never liked the idea that when people meet my child, the first thought is a damage generation. And no, my son is not brain damaged. He had no direct injury to his head or brain. His brain developed differently and part of my advocacy is his different does not mean it’s bad, or damaged. Eventually, our youg kids are going to be exposed to all this talk, and I’d hate for my kid to ever think he is damaged and dread the day he meets the person who tells him he is. I also don’t think a cure would be so easy and again I will use a blind person who then gained sight. That person spent years using other sense and then having sight, they need to be re-taught how to use that sense of sight. They just don’t wake up being able to functionally use that sight. Same with autism. If my son ever had a cure, he’d need even more therapy for that major adjustment. A child who can not speak just wouldn’t wake up after a cure and speak age appropriate, be socially appropriate, academically at grade level and so on. That is magic-wishful thinking. I don’t seem to think autism is genetic, I seem to think this of my own child, not of yours. However for my child, although stem cell research is a wonderful thing, wouldn’t that be contradicting to vaccines containing DNA? If my child had a life-threatening illness, I’d go for stem cells. He has autism, I would not inject stem cells into him. He doesn’t have heavy metals but if he did, I’d want to find out why his body did not discreet them as it should had before I ever used chelation agents on him. Even still research those exposed to heavy metals and had neuro damage. Look and see of those cases who fully recovered. Lead poisoning last I looked, is deadly and if you survive, the damage is life-long.
Happy day to you, I hope you locate what you’re looking for.
That’s right barbJ – autism spectrum disorders are not brain damage. They are a developmental disorders, often present at birth, and highly heritable. Autism-like symptoms can result from a closed-head injury, but if we’re talking about the same thing, and sometimes I think we aren’t, then ASDs are not brain damage.
Often seen at birth as well, like my child. No pregnancy complications, no pre term, no drugs during birth (not such a fun experience) by all accounts the whole ordeal was like anyone else’s. Not even the nurses knew what to do with him but many infant behaviors can be explained away and even more so, excused away but as that child grows older, those same explanations and excuses do not work nor acceptable. For instance my infants behavior when it turned dark and never sleeping. A common issue for infants to only sleep 2 hrs a night and he never cried except when it was night. I’m not talking just a dark room, that infant knew when it was night. Let me tell you’s it was a brick in the head when he was 2, 5 and now 10 and he still doesn’t sleep or cry often. As that child get’s older and expectations grow larger than that of an infant, it’s way more noticeable even to a mom like me who was just fine accepting explanations and excuses. There are studies out there which contain video tapes of infants and toddlers prior to the age of one and had one looked closely and knew what they were looking at, they’d see as I looked back, the answer was right smack there the whole time. Even day one at the hospital made sense. If parent could be educated about this developmental issue early on, interventions could start much sooner. There are Orgs. out there with that focus, diagnosing earlier.
My son can do things that I believe are autism-related, and some of these things are quite unique and cool. There are parts of autism that are not so great but many forget that child is a child, not just a child with autism.
Altered brain development, brain damage, brain injury, it’s just semantics, in my way of thinking something caused some kind of “damage” . I’m not suggesting it was brain trauma from birth, or a blow to the head. There are studies ongoing that want to blame cutting the cord too soon, or pitocin , or terbutaline, and maybe there are some numbers of autistic children to whom this applies. In the big picture I believe it’s inflammation, and that points to autoimmunity, and that points to a viral,bacterial or chemical trigger, just in my opinion. I don’t mind calling it altered brain development. There are people who think tylenol causes autism, in some way even this can make sense. Do we alter our immune systems by turning off our normal immune responses? There are a lot of sensible ideas out there I hope someone can put them together.
I hope for your son, and all of the boys I care about that it will be fixable!
My kid would have to be broken in order for him to be fixable. He has autism, but he isn’t broke and doesn’t need fixing. Many kids with autism progress but for many it’s hard for them to accept their rate of progress.
No Koolaid for me — but thanks anyway, AutismNewsBeat!
ANB said: That’s right barbJ – autism spectrum disorders are not brain damage. They are a developmental disorders, often present at birth, and highly heritable.
First, ANB, I thought you didn’t believe Autism has increased in the past thousand years. I thought your view was that we are just better at detecting it, or we are over-diagnosing it, or we are simply waking up to the fact that 1:100 children have always been autistic and for some reason nobody noticed it 100, 200, or 500 years ago.
By your comment to BarbJ it sounds like you have softened your position. It sounds like you are now conceding the point that Autism is on the rise. If it’s on the rise, but you still insist it’s not environmentally triggered, then I’m dying of curiosity: by what mechanism are human “genes” changing to cause the observed epidemic rise in Autism over a mere one or two generations.
By heritable, ANB, it appears you mean that autism is “genetic”? If so, your claim lacks scientific support. Please point me to all of the genetic studies that have found the cause(s) of autism. …I won’t hold my breath. The AGRE/CHOP studies found …what, exactly?
I’ll save you the trouble: These 3 studies — almost as massive as the Human Genome Project itself — with HUGE sample sizes, and examining the WHOLE GENOME of each study subject. …And found …NOT MUCH. Worse for the researchers, the 3 AGRE/CHOP studies actually CONTRADICTED (failed to replicate) findings from every earlier study. Becuase the AGRE/CHOP data set was much larger than the earlier studies, those previous studies were false positives.
So after all this money and all these massive gene studies, please tell me, ANB, where are the genes that cause autism?
If Autism is “heritable” (genetic) as you claim, then please explain why the concordance rate for fraternal and identical twins is the same, adjusted for gender, while both FT and IT have substantially higher concordance than non-twin siblings? (Fraternal twins “FT” — same environment, different genes) (Identical twins “IT” — same environment, same genes). (non-twin siblings – different genes and different environment).
An FT=IT concordance says the environment (prenatal / perinatal) is what matters, not the genes. Or, at the very least, the environment matters FAR MORE than the genes.
If it was genetic, then identical twins should have a substantially higher concordance rate than fraternal twins; while fraternal twins would be expected to have the same concordance rate as regular siblings.
So at this point the scientific data can only be interpreted to say that genes play a small role, if any, in the etiology of Autism.
If it’s not genetic, then it’s environmental.
Autism may be triggered by a number of environmental factors, including stealth viruses, virus fragments, prions, adjuvants, preservatives, or other components or contaminants in vaccines, or just too many vaccines at once, “overwhelming mitochondrial reserves.”
Or Autism may be the result of a naturally or unnaturally occurring toxin or pathogen in the environment, having nothing to do with vaccines.
Pathogenic etiology is actually a very good hypothesis because the epidemiology model fits very well with observed familial clustering and with large geographic variability in the prevalence of ASD. (Oregon, NJ, Atlanta having much higher rates than the average, even after controlling for diagnostic criteria, services, etc.)
—
As for BarbJ — you don’t consider your “kid” “damaged?” I’m not sure if you mean that his condition is “natural” as opposed to being the result of a toxic, traumatic, or pathogenic injury. Do you actually KNOW what caused your son’s autism? Just because he was “born with it” doesn’t mean it’s not the result of a toxic or pathogenic insult.
Even what you would call “naturally occuring” autosomal genetic conditions, like PKU can be improved ENORMOUSLY by treatments such as changes in diet and limiting environmental toxins. So I see no reason to be fatalistic when it comes to Autism, which everyone agrees is NOT an autosomal genetic condition. Some ASD kids don’t respond as well to certain treatments as others, but a LOT can be done to help a lot of ASD kids. No reason to be fatalistic about this.
I’m curious, if there was a big red button in front of you, and you could push that button to make your kid “normal”, would you push it? Or do you consider your son to be “who he is” and you wouldn’t change it if you could? (i.e., the “neurodiversity” view).
Because, I gotta tell ya; I love my autistic son beyond words, and unconditionally — and I love him “for who he is.” But that doesn’t mean I would hesitate for one flippin’ second to pound that red button with both fists if it would confer upon my son a normal (undamaged) brain.
Autism is a neuro-development disorder. But it is also potentially preventable, curable, or at least treatable. Nobody knows what causes Autism — but fewer and fewer people are clinging to the ANB view that there is no autism epidemic.
If it’s an epidemic, let’s look at the environmental causes. Genes don’t change that much in a single generation. And the gene studies have borne little or no fruit. The lion’s share of the focus of Autism research should be on the environment. Vaccines, antibiotics, mercury, viruses, you-name-it.
Sorry, if your kid is unable to live independently; to perhaps marry someone he/she loves or otherwise have satisfying interpersonal relationships, to hold down a job, or attend college football games, then, by definition, there is something wrong. It is not o.k. to slap a happy face on it and say that kind of existence is just as good as a normal life.
I don’t care what the cause of the problem is (whether it be Down syndrome, ASD, schizophrenia, or if he’s a Democrat) – i’m speaking in general terms. If a child cannot grow up to live an independent fulfilling life, to contemplate his creator and place in the universe, to have children and a job — ok, that child is worse off than a normal child. It’s not “just as good” as normal.
Accepting and loving your child with all of your heart, mind, and strength — and recognizing him/her as a gift from God — that is absolutely the right thing to do.
Maybe it’s controversial to say this — but to say it’s just as good as a normal life — that is a fallacy. Every parent should strive to MAXIMIZE your child’s POTENTIAL and MAXIMIZE your child’s ACHIEVEMENT.
I know everyone writing her LOVES their child as much as I do. I just want to make a distinction between the unconditional love we all feel, and being in denial that there is “something wrong” with our kids.
-Bob
Bob~ you can stop yelling any time. Who is to say my dyslexia isn’t genetic? It is treatable but I have to tell you for most of all my life time so far, it has affected me, my work and relationships at times when it comes to balancing a check book.
I tell you what, that big button would come with more therapy and how do I know my son cant grow up having a life like other’s? Do you know he wont? Temple Grandin, during an era of little options diagnosed with severe autism, non verbal, grew up to go to college, and have income. If you are trying to suggest that those same hopes are not possible for my kid, I wont and do not believe you. Not everyone wants to go to football games, can hold a job well or get married or have kids. These days people don’t hardly ever work at the same place for 30 years due to down sizing anyway and the divorce rate generally is high to begin with. I will not teach my child that if he cant do this or that, that it means he is not ‘normal’.
You also need to understand the diffeence between denial and acceptance. One who denies does nothing at all. One who accepts works hard to prepare the child for a very cruel mean world with many expectations of society norms. One who accepts prepares the world for the grown up child and not be scared off by him. One that can not accept the child who has autism, is a person who works very hard to change that child than to work with that child’s abilities.
My child didn’t progress due to my denial, nor do I attribute his progression to me. All I did was offer him the opportunity, he is the one who did all the hard work knowing the whole time since he was 3, he had autism. Come the start of school, my son wants to stand with me as we give an educational speech about autism to his peers. I of course will do all the talking while he of course will do all the motions. My acceptance of his disability makes him fear not, makes him stronger for who he is bound to grow up to be.
Bob I agree with everything you say.
one little error..this was sandy..not me..
As for BarbJ — you don’t consider your “kid” “damaged?” I’m not sure if you mean that his condition is “natural” as opposed to being the result of a toxic, traumatic, or pathogenic injury. Do you act
I am fully convinced we have caused this damage, and yep it’s damage. I do hold the hope that it’s fixable in the future, but first we have to find and admit to the cause.
Bob, if autism is epidemic, then perhaps you can share some data with us. Please feel free to be as specific. For instance, don’t just say “the autism rate was 1:10,000 in the 80s.” Instead, tell us which PDD you are talking about, and which studies showed 1:10,000.
BTW, there is no study from 1983 showing a 1:10,000 rate. But I didn’t make up that number. It’s the figure that Jenny McCarthy continues to quote. Not to say you repeat everything Jenny says – I’m sure you can do better.
Sandy I don’t want to open a can of worms, but often dyslexia is associated with autoimmune disorders, here may be your clue. Isn’t dyslexia a processing disorder? Do you have any other autoimmune illnesses, ulcerative colitis, lupus , arthritis? Is dyslexia yesterday’s autism? just thoughts…
Well of course dyslexia is caused by an autoimmune disorder, isn’t everything?? That’s a can of bad info worms. Thanks for the clue but really, you need to research a little before offending more people or misguiding others. Try looking at chromosome 6 and 15 maybe, a link to genetics, maybe autism. I do not have any, let me say again, no autoimmune disorders, and neither does my child last I checked.
However, you missed the point. Dyslexia is a learning visual processing disability that has effected most every part of my life, but here I be. So can my kid with autism.
I’m sorry I didn’t intend to offend, I’m just looking for answers like everyone else. It’s true that ten percent of dyslexics have other autoimmune disorders, I wasn’t trying to misguide. My niece and her one son are dyslexic, he works as as a computer analyst and she teaches school, her middle child is autistic. I can see some of what you are saying, they couldn’t read so they excelled at what they did best, she had a taperecorder for classes and testing designed for dyslexics, he went into the tech field. The autistic son just graduated high school.
Dyslexia is not an auto immune disorder. Probably 10 percent of the human population has immune disorders along with any other health issue, so what. The statement you made is twisting something to fit what you believe although it is untrue.
I hope you find what you’re looking for barbaraj, but obviously your answers do not lie within my family.
Lisa, sorry this became so off topic as the other topic this happened to-
Sorry,it’s something that I read that stuck with me,I remember studies that indicated a connection , and btw you write VERY well for being dyslexic.
Back to topic..
We will educate society that autism is not a lifelong incurable genetic disorder but one that is biomedically definable and treatable.
wow..what a statement!
BarbaraJ — you’re right; sorry for the mix-up.
ANB — I’m not going to debate you as to whether Autism, or any subtypes thereof, are or are not on the increase. I do (sincerely) appreciate your response — it sounds like you still believe there is no actual increase, and the “apparent rise” in the rate of ASD has everything to do with increased “awareness”, looser “diagnostic criteria”, etc. That’s your view, and that’s fine.
I will further concede that IF you are right (no autism epidemic), then you’re REALLY right. [I mean this sincerely] If you’re right that there is no “epidemic”, then that lets all the air out of the balloon regarding genes or environment. Then we’re essentially dealing with “neurodiversity” or a naturally occurring neuro-devel. phenomenon which occurs in a certian % of the population, with that % remaining stable over time.
You are right that the question of WHETHER OR NOT autism is on the rise, that is a THRESHOLD QUESTION. You believe it isn’t; I believe it is.
I know I cannot convince you any more than you could persuade me at this point. However, there was another interesting study, which was released July 16, 2009 by U.C. Davis professor of epidemiology Irva Hertz-Picciotto, and Lora Delwiche. Their study looked at the seven-fold increase in ASD in California over the preceding 17 years to try to figure out if the increase in autism was REAL or ARTIFICIAL. They found, after controlling for migration issues, socioeconomics, and other demographic factors that:
(1) diagnosing milder ASD cases contributed about +8%
(2) changes in State reporting contributed about +17%
(3) Earlier diagnosis of ASD (at younger ages) contributed about +3%
So that still leaves an increase of more than 500% over 17 years that cannot be explained away.
I also consider my own experience. When I was a child – in the late-60’s, 70’s, to the mid-80’s, I knew NO ONE with autism. No friends, no relatives, no classmates, etc. had anything resembling autism. I don’t just mean that they weren’t labeled “autistic”, I mean I never met anyone with any signs or symptoms of what we now call autism. Autism is pretty noticeable, so it just doesn’t seem like something that could go unrecognized.
Furthermore, I have spoken with several very experienced elementary school teachers, and every single one is very emphatic that autism is real and it is something new. They NEVER saw anything like it 20+ years ago.
I certainly do remember that there was an entire classroom full of Down Syndrome kids. In recent years 90% of fetuses with Down Syndrome are aborted, so those classrooms are literally decimated (1/10) the size they used to be.
I do not buy the argument that what we now call “autism” was simply considered to be “retardation” in the old days. Autism is expressed in very striking symptoms that I don’t think would EVER have been confused for “retardation.”
Why would Dr. Kanner have taken special note of the eleven original cases, and remarked that it appeared to be a new condition?
Also, it appears that in the early days the overwhelming majority of profound autism was congenital – apparent from birth. Whereas now a majority of cases of autism are regressive, where loss of speech and other skills follows a period of 6-24 months of previously normal neurological / social development.
Like I said, I know I cannot convince you that Autism is REALLY ON THE RISE. But it seems to me that the weight of evidence is showing a REAL increase, not merely the result of new “labels”, increased “awareness”, or relaxation of “diagnostic criteria”.
Bob — I’m not sure that autism is as obvious as you suggest, and I’m quite sure that no one with what we consider to be “obvious” autism would ever have been placed in a typical classroom prior to the IDEA laws went into effect.
Here’s what I mean:many kids with ASD diagnoses are verbal, engaged, creative, and academically pretty capable. Prior to the 1990’s, a child like that would never have been labeled “autistic.” That term was reserved for kids who simply couldn’t interact in anything like a normal fashion — the “rainmen” of the world. Then, as now, such profound differences were unusual.
Prior to the 1990’s, kids who were obviously disabled simply weren’t placed in typical classrooms. As I’m sure you’ll remember, they were in special classes or schools, carefully segregated from the rest of the school.
Why would you, or your teacher, have reason to interact with “handicapped” kids unless you had such a child in your family or were a special needs teacher?
And — if you really think about it — weren’t there plenty of kids in your school who, today, would be likely to receive an “aspergers” or HFA diagnosis? Kids who were clueless, didn’t meet peoples’ eyes, were “bookworms” or geeks?
Lisa
Very few in the 60’s, 70 and 80’s would have had an autism diagnosis. It would have been termed MR and as Lisa said, those children weren’t in inclusion and most times didn’t go to the local public school to begin with. Those that did go to public school, they were counted into a rate per their IEP- anyone can look this up and they need to go no further than public schools. Since public schools are public, the records per statistics are public, once autism was added to IDEA, MR IEP’s dropped significantly. Keep in mind, those who didn’t go to public schools never even got into that autism rate at all, nor did the ones sent to institutions. Autism was termed MR per IEP’s which is where the bulk of the rates come from, public schools. It wouldn’t had matter if the child had an autism diagnosis prior to IDEA adding autism, before it was added the only primary disability close to it was MR at the time. It doesn’t matter if there was a distinguishable difference between MR and autism, (MR is based on IQ anyway, not behaviors and many kids with autism qualify for MR as well) per where the rates come from that doesn’t matter in the least. That epidemic was always there, it was just mis-termed. Look up school stats on IEP’s.
When I was in JR high school, I knew of a few disabled kids and one in particular and the only reason why I interacted with him was if you couldn’t participate in PE, they sent you to a room. This boy couldn’t go to PE for whatever reason I don’t know but I found my way out of PE come swimming time every school year. Thinking back to that boy, although I didn’t know his diagnosis, I’d think autism if I seen him today. When I was in grade school, I never talked to anyone and I still remember in 1st grade a girl named Becky asking me why I didn’t. I was shy, but today some one might think otherwise.
Can we discuss this
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16512356
along with the newer one from Hopkins that says maternal antibodies are attacking fetal brain cells..
I did find an error , we never had thimerosal in the mmr, however, our kids are usually dosed with other jabs around the same time that did contain thimerosal
http://media.www.jhunewsletter.com/media/storage/paper932/news/2009/04/30/Science/Maternal.Antibodies.Increase.Autistic.Behavior-3733570.shtml#4
mention of the other one..
Well, not sure what you want to talk about, the part of the study that contains the error about the MMR containing Thimerosal, or to the comparison it made to occupational hazard exposure to mercury and Thimerosal? Or maybe the part that stated “MMR vaccination may increase risk for autism via an autoimmune mechanism in autism.”? I also like this part “Further investigations at immunological, cellular, molecular, and genetic levels will allow researchers to continue to unravel the immunopathogenic mechanisms’ associated with autistic processes in the developing brain.”
http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:MrcyVPnIgR0J:fl.biology.usgs.gov/posters/Ecotoxicology/Mercury_in_Mussels/mercury_in_mussels.html+mercury+increases+testosterone&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
does the mercury increase the testosterone ,is it the testosterone that makes the male more susceptible..
The second article was interesting. Did you know the human body contains about 10 billion different antibodies?
“In a paper appearing in this month’s issue of the Journal of Neuroimmunology, Singer and his colleagues determined that these autism-positive antibodies are sufficient to produce at least some of autism’s characteristic behavioral patterns in induced-autism mouse models.”
It seems the article is suggesting that certain maternal antibodies cross the placenta into the baby’s, obviously that’s not suppose to happen but they didn’t specify which of the 10 billion antibody they injected into the mouse or why they crossed the placenta is the first place.
These studies appear “whale” free, first nih, later johns hopkins, it seems they are on track to connecting mercury, viruses, antibodies against brain tissue, testosterone..to autism
I mentioned the error because I knew it would be picked up. I may not have included the testosterone one, it mentioned a study of sibs of autistic children having lower testosterone than the affected sib
Of course this won’t explain every case. Does it seem like sound science to you Sandy? BTW I am serious, I do respect your opinions.
Mercury in food is not the same as Thimerosal. Maybe a poll would be useful to see who ate a ton of mussels. I’d consider it for a pet, but I myself would never eat such an ugly thing.
Really, the topic is vaccines, not food. The only benefit it has is making me hungry.
Yes, I know, and I’ve done just about every imaginable search to find out and can’t. Are they just antibodies that have a preference for brain tissue. I wanted to know, as well, were the mice males? Is there something about testosterone that leaves the fetus more vulnerable? Are we raising the testosterone levels through environmental exposures to cause this?
I’m not going to make the distinction between the source of mercury, not yet, because it may be a factor . Pregnant women are advised against eating many of the fish, including tuna because of the mercury. I’m open to the possibility that mercury is raising testosterone levels.
The only answer I can give you or anyone is find a doc and have some tests done. I have a long list of tests I did, mainly due to medical issues unrelated but threw in a few others for my peace of mind. My kids health had been looked at backwards, upside down and inside out. Most parents only have a vaccine record, maybe a heavy metal test. Our file is huge. I pretty much do know other than picking up me kids brain and looking it over, what didn’t cause autism for him. Strangely, when my sons cousin on his dad’s side was being diagnosed for ADHD, that doc asked about relatives who may have autism. Makes you wonder about those with an ADHD DX. Of the articles you provided, people can look into tests for their kid. The thing to remember is mercury, viruses, antibodies and the air we breathe can all be triggers, and most of them are unavoidable unless you live in a bubble.
Like I said, I know I cannot convince you that Autism is REALLY ON THE RISE.
Don’t sell yourself short, Bob. Of course you can convince me that the true prevalence of all or any ASD is on the rise. And I believe you know how to do it.
But it seems to me that the weight of evidence is showing a REAL increase, not merely the result of new “labels”, increased “awareness”, or relaxation of “diagnostic criteria”.
But what evidence are you talking about? The H-P paper from California is surprisingly weak. For starters, CDDS numbers cannot be used to determine incidence in a population. The CDDS is very clear on this point:
In theory, the same individual can be counted two times or more if he/she moves from one California regional center to another. Or if the child stops receiving services through DDS then start up again.
I encourage you to read Dr. Bennett Levanthal’s letter in Epidemiology where he discusses other severe limitations of the H-P paper.
It doesn’t matter if I “believe” the true prevalence of autism is on the rise. What matters are data, and let me clear – there are no data pointing to an increase, just as there are no data indicating the opposite. So it seems strange that the anti-vax movement would place its bet on this threshold question (great phrase – thanks for that).
One more data point that indicates no real increase:
Nationwide IDEA data for all disabilitiesfor the last 10 years do not reflect a dramatic rise in autism diagnoses. This points to diagnostic substitution, which H-P didn’t even address in her paper.
Another factor is the rise in administrative diagnoses, which differ from medical diagnoses, and are more frequently wrong. My own daughter has an “educational” autism diagnosis, because that is the only way she can qualify for speech therapy and special education services at her school. She in no way meets DSM-IV criteria.
My 14-year-old son is diagnosed PDD-NOS, a DSM classification that only appeared in 1988. If Chris was born ten years earlier, he might have been called speech delayed, or learning disabled.
It’s an unfortunate misconception that people think all cases of autism are obvious.
I feel very let down, it’s been a couple of weeks since I’ve done some google searching on this subject. I have deliberately made an effort to avoid anything remotely radical, trying to stick to nih, hopkins, respected universities, avoiding whale and the cdc who both seem to have taken radical and opposing positions. Our cdc is operating with, what I believe, a questionable ethic. I’m not a scientist, but I can understand the essense of conclusions in properly run lab studies . Today there is no doubt in my mind that A. something is causing high testosterone levels B.we have suspects, mercury being one C.antibodies are affecting the brains of children with high testosterone D.viral antibodies are involved
This should be enough to put it all together and I’m betting they HAVE and they aren’t sharing this with the public.
Yes they have the reason for this.
http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:Ftid87b05jkJ:biotech.law.lsu.edu/blaw/bt/smallpox/1714.htm+vaccine+homeland+security&cd=9&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
Then how do you explain the Poling case along with a thousand others in vaccine court? The thing about suing any one for any reason is you have to provide legit proof of cause and how it happened. So far, no one knows the cause for autism so the burden of proof is very difficult.
Has your family member who has autism been tested for testosterone levels?
I have no doubt that hiding info as a motivation for continuing the vaccine schedule is true at all. It generally is said by many who believe since we don’t have answers, some one just isn’t coming forth with them and it has to be the CDC and vaccine makers. That may or may not hold true, however no one has to vaccinate their child in this country. Only 2 states don’t allow waivers, and even without a waiver, home school and you never need proof of vaccines unless the child needs a passport. Again, science is not as easy. There still isn’t answers for many things like cancer. Many people who would have those ‘answers’ could easily find employment else where and spill their guts of hidden secrets. The day I believe that the government of where I live is so cynical and cruel to knowingly inject children with harmful things is the day I move to Iraq.
Instead of searching for fault, why not spend the time educating parents of their choices? Spending time explaining risk factors and other health issues?
Today there is no doubt in my mind that A. something is causing high testosterone levels B.we have suspects, mercury being one..
The mercury/testosterone connection was farbricated by Mark and David Geier, and is based on a 40 year old paper that shows when Hg and testosterone are combined in hot benzene. The Geiers misrepresent that study in order to propose that testosterone “ties up” hg in the body, which makes it harder to excrete or chelate the metal. There is zero credible evidence for this, but that doesn’t stop the Geiers from treating disabled children with a powerful chemical castration drug to “unbind” the hg.
Even an autism moderates can see the impropriety of chemically castrating disabled children based on the idea that their little bodies are contaminated with hot benzene.
“Yes they have the reason for this.”
link
That language was repealed about six years ago.
Lets also not forget the widely used agenda against Offit about patents as motivation. Mark and David Geier have the same agenda’s for their injection.
I started “low” with mussels for heaven’s sakes, looked at the lowly in the animal world, I have no idea what “heier” said or why you chose not to believe him. I will , however, look .
I have no idea what “Geier” said or why you choose not to believe him.
You may have never heard of the Geiers, but your beliefs are obviously influenced by them if you think testosterone and mercury interact to cause autism.
And I “choose not to believe him” for several reasons, one of which I clearly stated above.
All I can say is “wow”, the CDC should be held criminally liable. They know. Yes, I just read the Geier material, the science that was refused to be entered, the studies that were refused, all wrapped up in “we’ve looked at it, no more necessary”. In China they would do the right thing at this point.I have my answers, I’m finished. Amazingly NO I didn’t get that mercury information from a study of benzene that was 40 yrs old. What happened to “first do no harm”?
All I can say is “wow”, somebody needs to work on her critical thinking skills.
It’s amazing how someone can accuse anything of being criminally liable. There has to be intent to harm, and there simply is no reliable proof of that.
Vaccines were created to save lives- and thereis proof of that. Thimerosal has been in them since the 1930’s or 40’s. It’s amazing that it took so long to damage kids, but at the same time once Thimerosal was removed, tons of new autism diagnosis still goes on and on.
What I think has potential liablity is Mark and David Geier and injecting young children with Lupron at 10 times the higher dose- no one knows yet how that’ll effect some one’s genentic make-up and future side effects. And guess where Lupron comes from? Drug companies.
The hypocrisy of the anti-vax movement is mind boggling. It would be amusing if public health wasn’t being jeopardized by these clowns.
REF—”It’s amazing how someone can accuse anything of being criminally liable. There has to be intent to harm, and there simply is no reliable proof of that.”
There may turn out to be proof of that. Time will tell. There are 4 “flavors” of criminal “intent”:
1) criminal negligence
2) malice
3) general intent
4) specific intent
…Like Michael Jackson’s doctor. He probably didn’t give MJ propyphol with specific INTENT to kill MJ. But the Doctor’s actions were so reckless as to rise to at least criminal negligence, probably even malice, and maybe even general intent. Administering that particular general anesthetic outside of a hospital setting, without proper EKG and other monitoring is the equivalent of Russian roulette (literally). For a doctor, who has a duty of care for his patient, that could lead to a charge of Manslaughter-2, Manslaughter-1, or even Murder-2.
Likewise, public health officials have a duty of care. Unless there is a form of immunity from criminal prosecution that I am unaware of, YES, they absolutely could be held criminally liable.
If, for example, they engage in willful blindness (ignore the truth), where there is resultant harm. That could be charged as crim. negligence or malice.
Similarly, they could be held criminally liable if they knowingly conceal information, the absence of which creates a substantial and unjustifiable risk of harm. Malice.
If they conspire to conceal information — meaning two or more persons agreeing to conceal information, then they could be charged with criminal conspiracy.
…and so forth.
I think everyone reading this probably already knows that if a doctor does surgery without obtaining proper informed consent, that is a CRIMINAL BATTERY. …Because slicing you open with a scalpel is normally an assault/battery. It is “excused” because of the informed consent. But if the doctor improperly informs the patient regarding risks, etc. or performs surgery beyond the scope of what was consented to, that doctor has committed a criminal battery. No question about it!
I hope none of that is true in the case of public health officials. I hope our public health officials are acting in good faith, no cover-ups, etc. If, however, they are actively concealing or distorting information, which results in harm to our children, they should be criminally charged.
—REF “once autism was added to IDEA, MR IEP’s dropped significantly.”
Actually, no. The reason MR IEPs have dropped significantly in the past 15 years is that 91% of Down Syndrome fetuses are now being aborted.
Those children who used to be MR aren’t around to participate in their IEPs because they are in a landfill somewhere.
Autism epidemic is TRULY new and has NOTHING TO DO WITH M.R. My ASD son is VERY BRIGHT. He would NEVER be confused for MR, not even close. It’s like confusing whooping cough with a broken leg. Sure, they are both medical conditions, but no doctor would confuse one for the other.
Like I said before, I have talked to a number of very experienced elementary school teachers; some special-ed, some not. They ALL AGREE 100% that Autism is something new and real, and it was not just a re-labeling.
So you have no reliable data to back up your claim, but you have talked to a number of experienced teachers who share your belief.
What does “new and real” mean? How new? And who says the increase in diagnoses is only relabeling?
Everyone can read perfectly fine Bob with out your yelling caps. If you’re going to yell, o one will pay attention to what’s written.
Really, and where do you get the facts about Down syndrome and abortions? Nice try but I don’t believe it for a second. The abortion rate for Down Syndrome has always been there, it just didn’t start 15 to 20 years ago but odd how it would happen to coincide with adding autism to IDEA.
Like I said, disability rates are mainly based on the public schools records of IEP’s- school teachers and special ed would be the experts, right? It’s a conflict on interest to have those ‘experts’ having very little to do with having a medical education. Half the parents who have special ed kids do nothing but battle the teachers and school! But we should agree with them about their opinion on autism rates? And how long have they been employed at what school? They’d have to be pretty old to remember kids from a generation or 2 ago.
MR is again, based on IQ. It’s great your child’s IQ doesn’t fall within the MR level, but mine does since he interprets written words literally. A good portion of those with autism have a duel MR DX. My kid is pretty bright, too only you have to ask him the question in just the right way. Wouldn’t matter if a doc DX’d MR or autism, prior to IDEA adding autism to it, those autism kids would have an MR IEP. Period. Most of the kids sent to institutions were DX’d MR. I had a hard time getting any diagnosis for my own kid. It took 3 doctors and the final doc said severe autism. The first doc told me to come back when he was 5. So in present day even, it’s not easy to get the correct diagnosis.
Also, there are some states that regardless of an autism medical diagnosis, they do not term the IEP any thing by DD until the age of 9. In the state where I live, you need no medical diagnosis at all to get a autism IEP. Then once a kid is out of the public school system, they’re off the count as if they were never there. The whole rating system is flawed.
ANB said: “Don’t sell yourself short, Bob. Of course you can convince me that the true prevalence of all or any ASD is on the rise. And I believe you know how to do it.”
Um…funny… I wasn’t “selling MYSELF short” — I was commenting on your predisposition to believe what you believe — and, consequently, the unlikelihood that you would be persuaded by a mountain of evidence contrary to your view. But it sounds like you might actually be starting to come around.
Look, ANB, I know I give you a hard time — but I really do respect your knowledge. And, frankly, it’s good for the overall debate to have someone as informed and articulate as you to “represent” the viewpoint that Autism is nothing new, and not on the rise. Because we all need to constantly check our assumptions. And one of the most basic assumptions I make is that Autism is, and has been increasing.
Bottom line: I disagree with you completely. But I appreciate what you add to the conversation.
BarbaraJ makes tons of excellent points (reading her posts is like music to my ears — it’s like listening to myself, but better). =)
One really excellent point she makes is that there is SOMETHING WRONG WITH MOST BOYS nowadays.
It “ain’t” just Autism. And it “ain’t” just video games and cell phones and the Internet. Almost all boys have language problems, and many have social problems.
There is something really wrong here. It is not just “looser diagnostic criteria” or “overdiagnosis” or “better awareness,” etc. etc.
How do I “know” all of this? Because I was a kid once. I remember what kids were like then, and I see what they are like now.
Sandy –
A 2002 literature review of elective abortion rates found that 91–93% of pregnancies in the United States with a diagnosis of Down syndrome were terminated. [Mansfield, Hopfer, Marteau (1999)"Termination rates after prenatal diagnosis of Down syndrome..."]
Termination rates were similar in the 1990s to those reported in the 1980s. Look it up.
The abortion rate for Down Syndrome has always been there, regardless of what they found in 1999. It means it’s stayed consistant.
By the way, there are more than 400,000 people living with Down syndrome in the United States
I’m not sure why we need to know how many Down individuals there are, we know what Down is, we know the chances of having a Down child are about one in 800-1000, with older women having a risk of 1 in 100. We know that more older women are experiencing pregnancy than in the decades past, that fact will be represented by more of these children. We know that most (92%) of these fetuses are aborted . I guess according to those numbers we could extrapolate that only 8 % of right wing Christians are subject to having a Down child? There is a study.
I feel comfortable , that while I don’t know the process with which we are damaging our children, it’s clearly within scientific literature that thimerosal and viral vaccines are both factors in the development of autism.
What I would like to find is a safe treatment. Common sense suggests to me that inflammation is encenphaltis, why can’t we address it as such? Why can’t we start by using treatment aimed at easing inflammation in the brain.
I find it interesting that often fever eases the symptoms of autism. We can’t bottle this, but maybe someone with a better understanding of the human body and how it works, can explain it and duplicate the effect with medicine? While it’s certainly not a typical encephalitis, despite this , could we try antivirals? Could we boost the child’s immune system by exposing him to more sunlight, less processed food, avoidance of foodstuffs that we know ccarry contaminents such as mercury. I can’t imagine that chelation will rid the brain of mercury, but maybe we can ease the symptoms a bit by stopping the reaction to it? I agree we don’t need a snake oil salesman at this point, however, if it is what it looks like it is, while not curable maybe it will become manageable.
Then you didn’t read the posts. Autism has always been there- MR IEP’s dropped significantly once autism was added to IDEA and the reason for it was not the termination rates of SD pregnancies, although it’s one of the most unique excuses I have ever read yet, it is untrue. The termination rate has always been there since there was a test prenatal for it. The number people who have SD goes along with the termination theory and why the MR IEP’s dropped once autism was added to IDEA, and the increase of autism rates once autism was added to IDEA.
The idea that a fever eases autism is funny. Any time there is a fever no one feels like doing anything. And what causes a fever to begin with? Mostly viruses. Isn’t it the idea that the fever after a vaccine caused autism?? Isn’t it funny a study found a fever to reduce autism behaviors. Does the person in your family with autism have inflammation of the brain? My kid doesn’t so treatment as such can prove useless towards autism. Encephalitis is encephalitis, with many causes other than vaccines. There is no clear link to Thimerosal and viral vaccines and since Thimerosal is no longer in childhood vaccines, than one can assume it’s some other cause.
Autism already is treatable and manageable, and since each person with autism is different, not one single intervention yet as proved to work for all with autism.
Honestly I never thought the fever from vaccines caused autism. If so my daughter who is subject to high fevers , who always had temps hovering around 105 after shots would have it. If it was the fever, if every child just dropped within hours into a stupor then we’d have our eureka! It seems slow and insidious and possibly originates before birth.( remember I believe the vaccinated moms could play a part in some cases)
Inflammation of the brain was found on autopsy in a study by Johns Hopkins, it was present in each of the autistic subjects examined.
http://www.iom.edu/Object.File/Master/4/134/Thimerosal-FAQ.pdf
they don’t know if it does or if it doesn’t?
The reason, and thank you Bob for your comments on this, that I believe the cdc should be held criminally liable is because there is proof emerging that they DID know, they have for quite some time. I fully expect this to become public information as politicians and judges get involved.
If Hopkins believes it’s inflammation then yes, I buy their conclusion. Now let’s fix that inflammation.
How does vaccines cause autism?
I just got this in my mail..and it fits in so well with other thoughts..
certainly increasing sunlight can’t be a harmful first step..what do you think Sandy?
Does vitamin D explain the role of vaccines, mercury, and heavy metals?
Vitamin D’s role in increasing glutathione levels may explain the link between mercury and other heavy metals, oxidative stress, and autism. For example, activated vitamin D lessens heavy metal induced oxidative injuries in rat brain. The primary route for brain toxicity of most heavy metals is through depletion of glutathione. Besides its function as a master antioxidant, glutathione acts as a chelating (binding) agent to remove heavy metals, like mercury. Autistic individuals have difficulty excreting heavy metals, like mercury. If brain levels of activated vitamin D are too low to employ glutathione properly, and thus unable to remove heavy metals, they may be damaged by heavy metal loads normal children easily excrete. That is, the mercury in Thiomerosol vaccines may have injured vitamin D deficient children while normal children would have easily bound the mercury and excreted it. These studies offer further hope that sun-exposure or vitamin D supplements may help autistic children by increasing glutathione and removing heavy metals. Not only do we have more clues that vitamin D is involved in autism, the vitamin D theory just did something else: it explained two other theories of autism, the mercury accumulation theory and the oxidative stress theory. 43 44 4\
I like this theory..however it doesn’t explain the viral portion of the “mix” yet could well explain the conditions that are set up for further immune damage from viruses/bacteria and perhaps fungus
Bob I remember being a kid too, and there weren’t children displaying any part of the spectrum, and we did play all day in the sun.
It bears repeating that the amount of activated vitamin D in the brain directly depends on the amount of vitamin D made in the skin or ingested orally.
Would this suggest as the author has that being born in March would put one at higher risk…if born let’s say in the upper US..One mom I know was on bedrest throughout her pregnancy, never saw the light of day..another delivered Apri 3, another March 21. ..One in June but another bedrest/terbutaline baby born with asthma and experienced pneumonia by six months of age..perhaps a good question for a survey?
Vitamin D is a neat theory, except not many 2 and 3 year olds ever played outside all day long when I was a kid and even these days they don’t either. That age group never did. Any working mom who was pregnant didn’t see much of the light of day either and even back in the 50’s, mom’s were in the house cleaning and not spending tons of time outside. But then there was pre natal vitamins. I think the Vitamin D idea was covered here when it came out, the idea was the raining seasons where there really was no sun at all even if you were outside. There has also been children’s vitamins for a long time too.
Aside from theories, what causes autism?
Yes, it’s an interesting theory, offering a possible explanation for why some children and not others seem to take up that mercury.
Your experience of outside and mine are different. We were out every day, rain or shine, babies were on every front porch ( alone btw) for fresh air time. Toddlers were sunning in playpens in the yard until about age four! Children were always out. We had only one working mom on the block and she had a nanny to supervise her child. When I had my children I just “assumed” this was necessary, I put my first baby in a carriage on the porch every day. Parks and sidewalks were full of children and lunch hour in school was free time to walk the yards, morning and afternoon recess were fifteen minute periods where again ,all of the children went outside. Mom’s had rules, bathe and dress before dinner, then, back out until the street lights came on. While this may not be an explanation, there were differences of exposure to the very healthy vit D. When all is said and done, there may well be a very different explanation for why so many suffer vaccine damage, however this one sounds reasonable and possible. Yes mothers were busy, hanging clothes “outside” to dry, bleaching porches, sweeping walks, and walking us to the store almost daily. Only one mom on my block drove a car, the same one that worked. While cars were a convenience they weren’t necessary, walking remained the main way of getting places, you all know the story of walking two miles to school, this wasn’t far from the truth, it was more like a mile and we did it everyday.The children born in the seventies experienced a completely different culture. These mothers as you suggest, were lucky to see the light of day, as were their children. I hate to take walks now it’s usual to be alone on the streets, I refuse to let children out of my sight, it’s easier to keep them busy inside or involve them in playdates.
Aside from theories, what causes autism?
I would guess we have to force the cdc to turn over their information. They know vaccines are the main contributor to autism.
That didn’t answer my question. You’re assuming the CDC knows everything when everyone else only has theories.
Regardless of environmental’s, autism is a disorder with a strong genetic bases. Studies have estimated that families with one child with autism have a 5 to 10 parent chance of having a second child with autism. The risk increases if 2 or more children are already effected.
Then perhaps some children have a genetic foundation for lower levels of glutathione? Why are preemies more likely to develop autism, why are preemies more likely to develop bilirubin that requires treatment? Why does putting the child under the lights or in a sunny window lower the bilirubin?
Preemies are at high risk for many things just due to being preemies. That’s rather off topic but maybe the CDC has those answers too.
They know. They can’t do studies on children, they can’t deliberately repeat what happened in the ’90’s. They can’t use animal studies because “suddenly” they can’t compare as a model?
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/480683?rss
Try looking at other sourses for studies.
Aside from theories, which is all you’ve sited, what causes autism?
Let’s look at the first paragraph, and this is Medscape, not “whale”.
Thimerosal, the ethylmercury-based preservative found in childhood vaccines, can increase the risk of autism-like damage in mice, according to a report published online June 8 in advance of publication in Molecular Psychiatry. However, the Institute of Medicine (IOM) Immunization Safety Review Committee released a statement on May 18 that scientific evidence supports no association with autism for either thimerosal-containing or measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccines.
A study was done! The “statement” was made, it’s called “damage control”. There are more studies ,there are more statements, it’s a coverup of huge magnitude.
Abstract
Inadvertent immunisation of seronegative women with RA27/3 rubella virus live-attenuated vaccine several weeks before and after conception is described. Whereas in 5 cases the vaccine virus was not transmitted vertically, in 1 case vaccination led to the development of persistent fetal infection with prolonged virus shedding for more than 8 months. Sequence analysis carried out on isolates from amniotic fluid, from cord blood leukocytes as well as from infantile urine confirmed an infection by the vaccine strain. At birth, the newborn infant exhibited none of the symptoms compatible with the congenital rubella syndrome and signs indicative for development of late onset disease are not apparent. This observation constitutes the first unequivocal documented case of rubella vaccine virus related to persistent fetal infection. J. Med. Virol. 61:155-158, 2000. © 2000 Wiley-Liss, Inc.
——————————————————————————–
Accepted: 3 November 1999
First unequivical documented case. In 1999 it was at the least accepted that rubella vaccine can affect the newboorn and persist for awhile, in this case six months. How I would love an update on the child at three/four. I am not expecting to convince anyone , I convinced myself, and except for a comment concerning 8% of down children’s parentage I have been truthful and sincere. However I apologize for that comment it was insensitive.
“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself – and you are the easiest person to fool.”
– Richard Feynman, Nobel Prize physicist
ANB I like that quote. Is it one size fits all?
Again, aside from theories, which is all you’ve sited, what causes autism?
http://aapgrandrounds.aappublications.org/cgi/content/extract/12/5/56
I don’t believe what I’m doing is showing you theory.
The only backing that anyone has to suggest this isn’t caused by vaccines is theory.
A study of 6 doesn’t tell much of any but theory but if you consider that more than theory, ok. Of course there was only 6 in that study, look at one of the authors.
Your citation is a JPANDS article by Bradstreet and Wakefield. You may as well be citing Moe, Larry and Curly.
JPANDS is a notorious quack journal that has denounced evolution and global warming. Bradstreet is not licensed to practice in any hospital, and has promoted exorcism for treating children with PDDs. He has no special qualifications for treating autism. In recent years trial judges have disallowed his testimony in vaccine suits, calling his alleged expertise “irrelevant”.
And then there’s Andrew Wakefield, who fled the UK and is currently running a quack treatment clinic in Austin, TX, where he is not licensed to practice anything.
Your last sentences have me scratching my head –
If you are not “showing us theory”, even though all anyone has is theory, then what are you showing us? What are you trying to say?
Wakefield, Bradstreet, and Curly don’t have a theory – they have a half-baked hypothesis, one that has been tested and discarded. Hornig et. al. (2008) replicated Wakefield’s 1998 research and found no support for the idea that measles RNA in the gut causes autism. They did find evidence of contamination in Wakefield’s lab, and sloppy work.
BTW, Hornig’s paper cites 23 studies that have also looked for, and failed to find, evidence connecting the MMR shot to autism. Now you know.
Yep it’s a war, and I’m not sure why. I can only imagine the frustration of those that spent time money and effort, that worked hard to become credentialed to have their work and their education belittled , dismissed by those that hold onto a safety claim that doesn’t exist.
Hardly war, just look at the study size. That size does not at all have answers for all or a cause for autism. A 6 person study is even worse than a 12 person study. Wakefield alone discredited himself in 1998 and there are many people who doen’t trust much of Wakefield or Bradstreet. The only ones who do trust them are those who must use them for their theories.
Remember it took more than forty years and thousands of court battles before the “then” very powerful tobacco lobby lost it’s position and cigarettes were indeed found linked to lung cancer and other ills. We don’t have forty-plus years to continue on with this epidemic, the children deserve the best we have and so far that’s been almost nothing. WHY can’t we have a decent study that compares unvaccinated children of unvaccinated mothers to vaccinated children born to vaccinated moms. How long can this be denied us? If we can’t accept the cause we can’t fix it.
It did not take “more than forty years and thousands of court battles” before cigarettes were linked to lung cancer and other diseases. Cigarettes weren’t mass marketed in the US until 1916 or so, and it took at least 15 years before the health effects started to show up in the general population.
I doubt tobacco was tested well at all like medications were. I know people who smoke all their lives and never got cancer, but then I know some who did. Although tobacco has nothing to do with anything, but along those lines no one knew lead was lethal if ingested either. Look how long it took to get lead out and you still find kid toys with it. People still smoke.
Maybe that ’smoking gun’ aint what it’s thought to be and that’s why there’s no study suitable to you.
My 1.75 yo daughter was normal,normal,NORMAL!!! Very social,playful, and speaking compound words,sentences. Strangers were amazed by the depth of her conversations.
She then was given her MMR. Within 1 hour we were on our way home and the siezures started but no fevers, ever!!!!She then quit speaking,smiling,reacting. She just sat on the couch with a blank stare. My baby was gone, just an empty shell was left. All of you who advocate vaccines, you did this to my baby…I hate you!!!
Gina~ I am truly sorry for your child’s reaction, but I had nothing to do with the choice you made to have vaccines. That was your choice to make, not mine. My cousin had that same reaction to her MMR, but she did not end up with autism disorder.
People who want to blame others will get no where to answers.
You’ll all be happy to know this will be my final comment on this column. A couple of parting thoughts.
SANDY- (sorry, didn’t mean to shout). I’m not sure you meant it, but your comment to Gina came off as very harsh. Gina is expressing the very visceral anguish that each of us parents has felt after watching our previously NORMAL child regress into autism after being vaccinated. Please understand that Gina’s pain is the same pain that all of us similarly situated parents share.
I’m sure it sucks about the same to have a child with Autism-from-birth. But it sounds like you have no sympathy or empathy for those of us parents who lived that sickening experience of watching …no, worse than merely watching… bringing our child into the examination room, holding him (or her) while some staff member came in with a tray full of needles and injected him with something that robbed him of his speech, his personality, his social skills, and his future.
ANB–you are too funny. Albeit, unintentionally. To say JPANDS is a “notorious quack journal” because it has denounced global warming — that says a lot more about you than it does JPANDS. I’ve never heard of JPANDS, but if they deny man-made global warming then they’re my kind of people! (By the way, can you please write it, “jpands”, because Sandy doesn’t like it when you YELL).
ANB– you responded to barbj:
—
“Your last sentences have me scratching my head – I don’t believe what I’m doing is showing you theory. The only backing that anyone has to suggest this isn’t caused by vaccines is theory. -If you are not “showing us theory”, even though all anyone has is theory, then what are you showing us? What are you trying to say?
—
Come on, ANB, you know exactly what she’s saying. Stop being obtuse in an effort to belittle barbj with sarcasm and ridicule, while side-stepping her very well-made points.
barbj has posted at least a dozen interesting studies, asking for respectful comment on both sides. After each of Barbj’s last several posts Sandy rudely posted “…Aside from theories, which is all you’ve sited [sic], what causes autism?…”
barbj simply made a “tu quoque” point in response. At least barbj has actually looked up studies and posted them for all of us to consider and discuss. I don’t understand why that merits such hostility out of sandy and you. Has she worn you down with her arguments, so you are resorting to sarcasm?
Ok, ANB — if you have something more than “theories”, then:
Where are your studies that show the genetic causes of autism? (feel free to be specific)
Where are your studies showing that thimerosol is not linked to autism? (feel free to be specific)
Where are your studies showing that testosterone is not linked to autism? (feel free to be specific)
Where are your studies showing that autism is not on the rise? (feel free to be specific).
Please don’t respond with that tired strawman that you can’t “PROVE” anything in science. Or that you cannot “PROVE” that autism isn’t caused by Winnie the Pooh.
I’m not asking for you to “PROVE” autism isn’t caused by thimerosol, testosterone, or the Cookie Monster, nor that autism is caused by genes. I’m asking for whatever you have in support of your positions.
Your THEORY (sorry for yelling, Sandy, please just plug your ears for a second, I have to take care of some business…) is that Autism is not on the increase. Surely you will admit that there is far more evidence FOR autism being ON THE RISE, than against it.
You may crack jokes about teachers I have spoken to, and their consistently expressed view that Autism is new/epidemic. While not infallible, people’s experience is a valid data point.
Where are the old-time teachers who say that autism has always been around – and at the same rate? I have NEVER seen or heard of an old-time teacher who thinks “autism” is simply a diagnostic substitution for MR.
I appreciate your thoughts Bob, but blaming other parents is not a normal reaction and I am sorry you feel by not accepting the blame put on some one else as no sympathy or empathy. A comment like that posted here can be nothing but directed at the other participants on this blog. What ever some one’s opinion is, that opinion in no way had anything to do with another parents choice. I did nothing to some one’s child and I will not encourage hate brought unto others. Are you suggesting understanding that Gina’s pain is the same pain that all of us similarly situated parents share is hate and blaming other parents? Are you suggestion it’s acceptable? There are plenty of things I has a parent regret of choices I made, it’s a reality of being a parent.
It’s time parents took responsibility for their own choices and not blame others, let alone blame other parents for their own choices for their children. It was a horribly cruel comment to make and anything I said was the truth. No advocate for vaccines or otherwise forces another parent to do anything.
I am not one for holding guilt and would suggest any who do, make peace with it. It took me years to get over the guilt for not knowing what my son was displaying was anything that had a name, let alone autism. I kicked myself for years for not getting him help sooner. Then, I told myself that my son would not hold against me something I just didn’t know.
We all hold our own fair share of guilt and probably all parents do. It is completely wrong to blame any advocate for some one else’s child’s autism or side effects from a vaccine. You’d then have the reverse going on, too. Those that chose not to vaccinate but their child contracted whatever, blame those advocates. If there was a reaction to a small portion of a virus, one wonders what exposure to the full virus would do to the child?
Blame and hate eats your innards, consumes your whole being. Regardless how and why autism happens, make peace with it.
I wasn’t cracking jokes about teachers, and yelling is not needed to get your point across. It’s simply disrespectful. I don’t yell at you. The truth be told, schools are a poor choice when most but not all parents fight with the school and teachers on a yearly bases. I still hear all the time a teacher saying “I don’t think they have autism, I think it’s ADHD”. Most are not even qualified to diagnose autism, ADHD or any other medical condition. All a teacher or school can really legally comment on is a learning disorder. You may consider it a valid data point, but I do not. Autism rates shouldn’t come from an educational source to begin with. And again MR is based on IQ, not behaviors.
Bob, I hate to see you go, however I understand. In a discussion with a friend today, we talked about daily business and a seeming lack of logic on the part of many today, as well as ( and this was the most disturbing) what seems to be a lack of “learning from one’s experiences”. If we take anything from our experience they choose to shut it down as though experience accounts for nothing. I only bring this up because you are the topic of yesterday’s discussion. We can’t have a dog in this fight, because our logic ,the belief in science, and the value we put on experiences, such as Gina’s , mean nothing to them. I agree with Gina,it’s time to stop suppressing information that could lead to saving some of our children. If you believe Gina’s experience you would have to take a step back and say, why is vaccine causing autism, what can we do? That would be a NORMAL reaction! I’m not sure why they can’t think that way?
http://autism.about.com/b/2009/08/16/autism-and-kids-today.htm#comments
barbaraj~ no where here did any one say experiences count for nothing, or that their experiences mean nothing to us. It has nothing to believing one or not, but that not every one’s experiences have the same outcome (such as my cousin) and those are the answers while people continue to offend other’s, that is forgotten. Why some children and not others.
Again, anyone’s experience does not give a free pass to blame everyone. That is most offensive of all. No one here has to bear someone else’s guilt, we have enough of our own to deal with.
You just reduced everyone’s feelings of hurt and pain but it’s ok when it’s deemed since some didn’t experience the same thing to be considered lack of learning, accounting for nothing is just out right offensive. I guess anyone can say anything and that’s what brings down the conversation from learning to attacks on others. You’ve brought up so many theories in one topic that it’s hard to know which theory you tend to lean upon, yet others are the ones with little understanding? And the point of inclusding the link to the current topic? How does that fit in with what this 181 is saying?
This topic ends to serve any functional purpose.
Sandy, go to yesterday’s blog , that is where I feel Lisa is diminishing the value of experience.
I never had a few theories, I have one very strong belief and that is that vaccines cause autism, whether it begins with the mothers vaccines or if the child reacts only to their own. So many parents can’t be wrong.
quote..
While a number of studies to date do not support a link between vaccines and autism, there remain important unanswered scientific questions on populations who may respond to vaccines differently then the vast majority. Former NIH head Dr. Bernadine Healy said in a 2008 CBS report “I think public health officials have been too quick to dismiss the [vaccine-autism] hypothesis as ‘irrational,’ without sufficient studies of causation… without studying the population that got sick. I have not seen major studies that focus on 300 kids who got autistic symptoms within a period of a few weeks of the vaccines.”
Barbara, you say: “I have one very strong belief and that is that vaccines cause autism, whether it begins with the mothers vaccines or if the child reacts only to their own. So many parents can’t be wrong.”
While I respect individual parents’ experiences — an immediate change in a child after a vaccination — I find it hard to believe that parents just intuitively “know” that a vaccine THEY had back 30 years ago was the cause of their child’s vaccine.
Or that autistic symptoms that come on six months or a year after an MMR are connected to that shot.
In short, the number of moms who are “true believers” doesn’t sway me to be a true believer myself.
Lisa
I don’t know if I’ve ever read where a mother who had a shot thirty years ago believed it had a connection to their child’s autism. I have , however, talked to moms, and read anecdotal info, suggesting they beieved a rubella booster within a few days, a few months, or a few years could have contributed. We know the action of foreign materials , such as heavy metals, may persist in the body and cause damage, live viral vaccines have been demonstrated to persist as well.If it’s noticeable within the health community that these children are not being studied in a way to promote scientific information, there can be no other conclusion than this, it is a huge “coverup”.
http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/Kinsbourne_Final_Report_April_2008.pdf
I can only guess this man has been vilified as well?
Sandy you say, “this topic ends to serve any functional purpose” , why do you say that? Johns Hopkins entered into a project treating brain inflammation in autistic patients, I think these are the kinds of things we should be looking for, small steps to an end to this epidemic. I can’t believe they haven’t been stopped by the money pharms, or maybe they have and I’m not aware.
No need to guess. The special master’s in the Cedillo hearing found Kinsbourne’s testimony to be baseless speculation. If you were half as informed as you are pretending to be, you would have known that. Instead you are, by your own admission, guessing.
Special masters..gee.
This sounds most promising!
http://www.thedailytell.com/2009/08/nih-gives-3-million-grant-to-collect-and-study-stem-cells-in-autistic-children/
Rubella specific IgG, IgM and IgG can be detected in the patient’s serum. IgM may persists in 73% of vaccinees after 6 mths and occasionally been shown to persist up to 4 years” from Virology
Lisa said”
Or that autistic symptoms that come on six months or a year after an MMR are connected to that shot.”
http://www.examiner.com/x-14578-Chicago-Parenting-Examiner~y2009m8d18-Autism–Vaccines-Is-there-a-link
Bob did you read this? I couldn’t have said it better myself:)
B.Janov