Medical Experts Take Notice of Jenny McCarthy's Autism Message

The topic of vaccines linked to the cause of autism is something that does need further investigation. I don’t know if a child with Autism is without a soul, but their ability to reflect the emotions and ideas from within their soul is taken with their diagnosis of Autism. I have felt lost when dealing with my own situation, but found hope and a sense of resolution when I watched a DVD recently regarding the possibility of recovery from the devastating disorder. The documentary is called RECOVERED: Journey’s Through the Autism Spectrum and Back and it is a film documenting four childrens journey from their diagnosis of Autism to their full recovery and the success they have come to have. I really never thought that my child would have a “normal life”, but watching this film has made me realize there is a way to gain that and for my child to be a productive, “normal” member of society and live a successful life. I found this wonderful documentary at http://www.recoveredautism.com. I hope that I can spread the word to help out anyone feeling as lost as I once did!
-Amber

I would put it to you, Ms. Rudy, that you’re taking a “let’s keep an open mind and not hurt anyone’s feelings” approach to the autism/vaccine/biomed questions has done far more harm than Dr. Bryson’s carefully worded statement.

You keep saying stuff along the lines of, “well we have to listen to the (hysterical, mislead, even sometimes jaw-droppingly stupid) parents”. You don’t add that stuff in the parentheses of course, but it does describe the parents you want to “listen” to.

They’ve been telling themselves stories on bulletin boards for years and reinforcing their beliefs that staring is one kind of “yeastiness” and screaming is another kind of yeastiness and their babies became half-normal from being total soul-less monsters after they changed their diet… they became another step toward normal after they added B12 shots, and another step after they added Goji Berry Juice enemas…

You are in a position of power over new parents, Ms. Rudy, and you have helped them to be mislead by taking your non-sensical… “well lets be nice to the parents who tell us this and that with no basis in reality.”

You have avoided doing what I do, that is say it like it is. You have avoided doing due diligence and following what the science points to, instead, you plead that “we don’t know” and “you can’t trust the science.”

But for some reason you can trust the parents who are flailing about in their emotions and ignorance??? Really???

Wow, Ms. Clark – strong words!

Here, then, is my take on the issues you raise. But please understand that I don’t think they all deserve the SAME answer, as the issues are quite distinct from one another.

First: I do take exception to the idea that people with autism are soul-less. It’s absurd, and disturbing.

Second: I am now beginning to get the picture that some parents are Waaaay over the top with their biomedical interventions. But I don’t count dietary changes as being waaay over the top. In fact, I think there’s plenty of evidence that diet can play a huge role in development, cognition, etc. – for any child, including those with autism.

Third: I find it easy to believe that some children with autism improve on a better and/or specialized diet – especially when those kids have GI issues that cause pain, and/or food intolerances that cause issues with thinking and behavior.

Fourth: I also find it easy to believe that parents see regression in their children at about the time of vaccinations. In fact, I think that toddler-aged regression is pretty much solidly proven as real in some number of cases (not sure of the percentages).

Fifth: As regards the issue of vaccines, well, I can tell you that I find it highly unlikely that vaccines cause autism. My very last blog post and article is, in fact, an invitation to read that parents SHOULD vaccinate their children, and that there is no proven autism/vaccine link. It’s important to note, however, that I am expressing an opinion – and not a “proven scientific fact.”

“Telling it like it is” does not, IMHO, entail telling parents that they are liars, that children can’t improve on improved diets, or that regression doesn’t really happen. In fact, I’m not sure that many of us really “tell it like it is,” except relative to our own beliefs and experiences.

I certainly intend to continue expressing my own opinion, though… and it’s likely to differ, at times, from yours! (and that’s ok)

Lisa (autism guide)

If Portia and I ever suggested that autistic children and certainly our own son, were without a soul, we were misquoted and if feelings were hurt or people offended, we apologize.

What I have said many times is that it felt, as if someone snuck into our home in the middle of the night and stole Dov’s mind and personality and left his bewildered body behind.

And though of course it did not happen over night, but over several months, I would talk about it that way to try and make people understand the shock. The sense that something was deeply deeply wrong.

As for a soul. It is actually our certainty that his soul or spirit was intact, but stuck in a body that was not well, that compelled us to start Cure Autism Now as well as pursue every theraputic avenue that we could for Dov.

Personally, I believe that Dov’s spirit is in a titanic struggle against his autism, and it is a huge testament to the pure light and power of his soul that he maintains cheer and finds ways to seek and give love.

As for Jenny McCarthy and this whole endless controversy, I think we must ask ourselves if anyone is actually served by engaging in it.
We all know that children (and adults) with autism can be so very different. From a boy like mine who can not talk at all to a girl who can not stop talking about baseball statistics. Some autistic children
seemed to be affected immediately by a vaccine, many not so immediately, or maybe not at all. Many people may have made progress by the techniques Jenny M suggests, but of course there are many who have tried and not had that success, but perhaps they are not in the mood to go to a rally. I guess what I am saying is, in our hearts, all of us know that one size does not fit all.

Even if on Monday we learned definitively that vaccines were the cause of many cases of autism, what would we do on Tuesday? We would have to figure out how to ameliorate the damage–for everyone. For those whose autism had a different cause, we would still have to figure out the cause and the cure. Any way you look at it, there is so much work to do, and to waste any of our precious energy fighting among ourselves is to stand in place instead of going forward.

We must go forward, I think we know this at a deep soulful level and we know it because we are so certain that no matter what autism has taken away or changed it has not diminished the souls of our children and their desires to expand into the universe and embrace it.

Jon Shestack

Founder of the Former Cure Autism NOw

Vaccines don’t steal the soul-they try to kill it. Iv’e seen it happen and understand exactly what Jenny means as do thousands of other parents out here. When you witness it happen to your child your not likely to forget it or be convinced you didn’t see it by some guy in a white coat. Your not to likely to be swayed in your quest to heal your child once you find out there are others doing exactly that either. I believe in saying it like it is and that is why I say-VACCINES CAUSE AUTISM

I do not believe there will ever be a truly unbiased evidence-based answer to the autism-vaccine link. It has already been suggested that if ever a link was proven, then the NHS would be made bankrupt as a result of compensation claims. One of the last people who tried to prove the link was dragged through court and, basically, chased out of the country. The evidence could already be out there, but it’s doubtful if it would ever be allowed to enter the public domain.

As a parent of a child on the Autistic Spectrum, I have struggled for years – firstly to get a diagnosis at all, and now to get the education and support he needs. It is a subject wrapped in controversy for so many reasons. But, when it all comes down to it, the quantity of children being diagnosed is rising every year, and no-one seems to be able to provide a clear reason for this. Perhaps if a substitue for the MMR jab was used for a trial period, then the statistics may speak volumes?

First, I’m sorry for misspelling “misled” as “mislead”… humiliating for me, really. I also now notice that I wrote “you’re” when I meant “your”… anyway…
You wrote:

“Telling it like it is” does not, IMHO, entail telling parents that they are liars, that children can’t improve on improved diets, or that regression doesn’t really happen. In fact, I’m not sure that many of us really “tell it like it is,” except relative to our own beliefs and experiences.”

Ms. Rudy, applying logic to the situation and knowing how there are always a good number of people ready to game the system, it is logical that some of the parents who are sobbing and grieving on camera because vaccines stole their baby are lying. L.Y.I.N.G. But I’ve never called a particular parent a liar on a particular detail unless I found that they said in writing on one day that “Bobby was fine until that day he had a can of tomatoes dropped on his head by the Walmart employee (so we had to sue Walmart for his autism)” and then another day, “Bobby was fine until he got the MMR.”

I have seen that kind of really suspicious looking of changing of stories that add up to mommy being a liar, but most of the time one can only say, “I don’t believe that what you are saying is true.”

Now, you surely can tell the difference between saying, “I don’t believe what you are saying is true,” and “You are a liar.”

Big difference.

Here is what I just sent you in a private email, so others can read it.

“Hysterias are real (I mean like “Oh, no, fluoride is a plot from the commies to make us more docile so they can take over our country”). They have real-world effects, even if not everyone buys into them.

I’m thinking of “War of the worlds,” too.

It doesn’t help anyone to say, “well, I don’t want to come down too hard on the side of saying that Martians aren’t invading earth because, well, they are nice people who are running down the street screaming, ‘The martians are coming!!!! The martians are coming!!!!!”

I think you’ve been too swayed by people like Mark Blaxill who are happy if they only plant a seed of doubt that vaccines are dangerous and cause autism.”

We don’t need to carry around and spread seeds of doubt that have no basis in reality at all, and a whole lot of basis in the back-room dealings of greedy lawyers and quacks.

I thought that since you thought that an emotional statement was what is necessary I’d give you an example of an emotional statment to counter the emotional statements coming from the antivax crowd. The difference is that my emotional statement doesn’t have it’s roots in the back-room dealings of greedy lawyers. It comes from being an autistic person, a parent of an autistic person and someone who has a better grasp on science than most and a stronger resistance to the sights and sounds of sobbing mothers and grieving fathers (some of whom are outright liars and manipulators).”

John Shestack and Portia Iversen told the story of their son’s mental and personality “kidnapping” using sort of mystical imagery. It’s no wonder that others picked it up and went straight to “this child now has no soul”. Jerry Kartzinel wrote that autism steals the “souls” of children. You can read about that in my final blog entry on Autism Diva.

And after contact with Mr. Shestack Dr. Thomas Insel went to the media and said that children with autism “lacked personhood.”

I thoroughly blame Jon “Look at me and Portia! We’re suffering! We’re suffering!” Shestack for teaching Dr. Insel (director of the NIMH) that autistic people lack personhood, and for that he will be forever a monster lacking a “soul” in my mind.

Feh. Shestack and Iversen and their buddy Sally/Sallie Bernard have done a huge amount of damage to autistic people, in part by CAN’s heinous PSA commercials and in part spreading lies about an autism epidemic that NEVER happened!

http://neurodiversity.com/weblog/article/177/

If you need some more background on the greed that lies below the autism/vaccine hysteria read Kathleen Seidel’s latest.

Why is it that this sort of stuff that brings truth to light never came from CAN and doesn’t come from Autism Speaks?

No they are more interested in blocking the truth about autism from the public.

Honestly, no one has the power to influence new parents, and shame on any one who thinks they do. Lisa Rudy does not at all inflict power unto others, nor should she. Also Telling it like it is” only goes as far as your own child. There is absolutely no way to predict what child will have autism and which wont, vaccines or no vaccines. Everyone should be offered information and we should be making choices based on things Lisa Rudy would never know about my child, his risk and medical factor. McCarthy doesn’t know anyone of us either.

The soul happens to be a religious term, and I am sorry, no vaccine has the ability to remove that from anyone. It’s a figure of speech poorly used. If one thinks there’s no soul, then one is not looking well enough. I also have never liked the reference to “autism stole my child from me”. I can introduce any to those who actually had their child kidnapped, very big difference. I’d bet any who had their child stolen wouldn’t mind having that child back, even if they had autism. Why cant people talk in terms any one can understand? When someone says my kids soul is gone or my kid was stolen, what do you think the general public thinks??? (just telling it the way it is now).

First of all, “Honestly, no one has the power to influence new parents, and shame on any one who thinks they do,” must be one of the more ridiculous statements I have ever read in my life.

We are all subject to influence. All of us. There is considerable evidence that we are subject to a lot of influence unconsciously, and a lot more that is conscious. People buy certain cars and not others because they are influenced by commercials that say, “any real person would only buy a brand X car,” and “everyone is buying brand Y so you better buy one, too!”

Maybe you need to take a few courses in psychology so you can identify the ways that you are being influenced.

Lisa Jo Rudy does have influence on people who show up here and read what she has on autism. There may be people who decide that about.com is a good source of info and never go much beyond about.com or to whatever about.com recommends.

I know my blog had influence on some biomed parents to stop chasing the phantom cure at the end of the IV line or at the end of another year of some diet.

There is, so far, no evidence that diet makes a difference in autism except in kids who have autism and also an allergy to certain foods. The same way that that allergy would affect a typical kid and make him feel lousy and less able to concentrate on learning. The same can be said for bladder infections. Apparently, giving a mouse the equivalent of a bladder infection drops the mouse’s ability to think about what it needs to do.

If you are sick it ties up mental resources because you think about how lousy you feel, and your brain can only think about so many things at the same time.

Actually, the “soul” in the Bible has the meaning of a living breathing thing. So according to the Hebrew meaning of “soul” a “soul” can die. We use this meaning when we say, “A thousand souls perished in that flood.” But the way Kartzinel was using it… in Jenny’s book intro, no less, was in a religious sense that the kid was no longer human when he was “kidnapped” thank you Shestack/Iversens. I hope you apologized to Dov for using his experience to rake in money for CAN.

Dov always had a personality, and always had a mind. HE WAS READING HEBREW while his parents were thinking he had no valuable mind and no personality!! Seriously, read Portia’s book, “Strange Mom,” it’s enough to turn your stomach at what Dov was put through and a wonderful indictment of ABA, too.

Well, it’s common sense. Unless you’re willing to take on the responsibility for those who are ‘influenced’ by you not to vaccinate, and then that child contracts the nasty and either dies or has long term effect. Or, the choice is made not to vaccinate and autism happens anyway. No one should be influencing any one. Stating their opinion, yes. Offering info yes, and dialog.
I don’t call it influencing any way, I call it learning.

Lisa provides many topics, and a well rounded resource for any who care to take a look. That is not influencing, it’s giving all the info so your own self makes a choice based on your behalf not some one else’s.

Actually, diet helps in other disorder’s as well, and some diet’s are a matter of life or death, as with my nephew.

Yes, ‘a thousand souls perished’ meaning dead, passed away, no longer living and breathing. Children with autism are none of those things.

In the end, we all may one day find out autism is more genetic and only medications or altering diet can help, but for a cure, maybe not. I am all for prevention, not a cure. One can imagine a blind person who has relied on other senses for a long time to suddenly have sight. The sight and brain conflict along with those other senses that cant easily be turned off. A cure for autism would mean our kids would then wake up to a world they know nothing of, reorganize their senses and sensory, and still learn the things they’re behind on. Kids simply would not wake up from a cure being age typical without residue lingering from autism.

Sandy wrote:

“Well, it’s common sense. Unless you’re willing to take on the responsibility for those who are ‘influenced’ by you not to vaccinate, and then that child contracts the nasty and either dies or has long term effect. Or, the choice is made not to vaccinate and autism happens anyway. No one should be influencing any one. Stating their opinion, yes. Offering info yes, and dialog.
I don’t call it influencing any way, I call it learning.”

Well, Sandy, it’s common sense that people can “learn” false things as well as true. And people are biased by what they “learn”.

Some of the information that Lisa Jo has “shared” in the interest of “being fair” (I’m always a little afraid to use quote marks lest Lisa Jo think I am quoting her directly… these are basically scare quotes as I am using them here, and paraphrasing what I think Lisa is actually saying) is false.

She puts out information that is highly slanted and the slant comes from falsehoods, like “maybe there are some children who actually were made autistic by the MMR, because after all all of Andy Wakefield’s acolytes and fans can’t be wrong.”

Well, yes, actually, they CAN all be wrong and they were all wrong, because the roots of Wakefield’s ideas (and later Bernard et al’s ideas) come from greed and lies and outright stupidity. There is no “grain of truth” in any of what Wakefield was saying for the lawyers who had paid him.

There was no “grain of truth” that thimerosal at vaccine levels is toxic to “neurons”. NO IT ISN’T. Sorry for screaming, but it’s time to stop beating this dead horse and abusing autistic children trying to “save them” by “getting out that last molecule of mercury (or aluminum) that is holding the kid back from being his REAL self.”

It’s time to stop playing the hand that the greedy thieving lawyers have dealt autistic people.

There is no reason to take a “middle ground” in between, say, the earth is flat and the earth is a globe.

I don’t want to hurt the feelings of the flat earthers OR the globe earthers, so I’ll just pick a middle ground. I’ll say that the earth is lozenge shaped.

This is what Lisa has been doing and it makes me very angry. Lisa is a nice person, no doubt, but she is influencing people by taking a nonsense position. She also makes people who take the “round earth” position look suspect because they won’t join her in the “lozenge shaped earth” middle ground and join arms and sing “Kumbaya.”

Interesting. Everyone has a choice to go to whatever blog. Maybe some blogs agree here and there with you and me, maybe some don’t. I actually don’t really care who also shares my own beliefs, or if Lisa shares mine. Even if Lisa took a non middle ground stand (outside of her own opinion) parents are still going to do what they feel is best, and believe what they will. What makes the world go around is people like you, maybe me, sharing their own opinion and throwing it out there. But don’t expect everyone to not walk that middle ground here and there. Many blogs would never had posted such an article to begin with. This site does a great job on topics

From the well-documented and backed-up research of Kathleen Seidel:

“HHS agreed to pay $103,000.00 in compensation to the petitioner . . . Six months later, Mr. Shoemaker filed a motion requesting payment of $211,663.37 in fees and costs”

Unbelievable. Mr. Shoemaker is claiming to be on the side of the petitioners, yet he believes that his routine work is worth more than the total amount awarded to the petitioner for life-long compensation for an injury. Again, this is simply unbelievable.

Read more here:

http://neurodiversity.com/weblog/article/177/

Sorry, I meant to add that this is an example of how lawyers manipulate the system to score big. If this child did have a vaccine-induced injury, it is despicable that a lawyer, working for a relatively short time could believe that he deserves more than the child received. And Mr. Shoemaker does stoke the flames of the parents who might be inclined to believe autism is caused by vaccines.

Sandy, in this world there actually are things that are externally factual and there are ways to find out what those things are, and then there are ways of just believing whatever suits a person.

It’s easy, say, to grow up in an area where racism is rife and just decide that it’s just true that (insert ethnic group name here) people are (insert ugly generalizatin here). Everyone believes it. Everyone can offer an example that proves it’s true. Everyone knows that … people are trying to run the world via the world banking system, that’s why they… and it’s just obvious.

On the other hand there are ways of checking into such claims that everyone believes and to figure out if they are true are not.

Lisa has bought, hook line and sinker some stuff that she had no business buying because she’s being paid to be an “expert”… unlike some of us who get and got not a penny for their digging, digging, digging to get at the facts (see: Kathleen Seidel).

Lisa has give the “about.com” imprimatur of “truthiness’ on stuff about vaccines and biomed and autism (maybe more so in the past than recently) that was ridiculous, and provable as wrong with a tiny bit of effort in seeking out who the experts are and who the con artists are (see: some of the people Lisa has quoted as experts).

I know Lisa is trying to do right by autism, but in her effort to be nice to everyone she has failed actual autistic children who she had not done due diligence by and who are being harmed HARMED Harmed. Harmed. Harmed. Because they are being subjected to gross quackery by parents who have been duped. We need voices to speak out against this, not to say, “wellllll, I don’t want to judge…”

feh.

I will judge.

I. Will. Judge.

It’s called using judgment.

I will judge when evidence says that quacks are harming vulnerable children and draining the finances of gullible families.

The best proof is studies with scientific backing, and even though it’s out there in many area’s, parents still do what they want. It’s called respecting choices other parents make that’s different from your own. That may be the hardest part for some people.
Have a great day

Sandy,

We respect parent’s choices when it’s not an issue of harm being caused to children. We don’t respect a parent’s choice to let their child play naked in traffic – we call the authorities.

Some biomed “treatments” for autism may be relatively harmless. With the exception of carnitine and melatonin, there are very few solid studies that show ANY biomed treatment to be effective in autistic children. And these two examples had a tiny (but real) effect on behavior and help with sleep issues (respectively).

There’s a line to be drawn here. It may be essentially safe to give non-megadose vitamin supplements. It may be relatively safe to put a kid on a GFCF diet (but it may also make their bones more brittle). But when you talk chelation, lupron, OSR, HBOT, rectal suppositories, unnecessary vitamin injections, multiple and unnecessary blood draws, and all the rest of the so-called vaccine injury treatment, you’ve crossed the line.

Because that’s what happens when parents believe their child’s autism might have been caused by a vaccine. They subject their child to “vaccine injury treatment”. All of it not based in science, and most of it potentially very dangerous.

Lisa,

Please consider that your balanced treatment is causing some parents to enter the world of woo. IMO, you need to go with the clear and definitive science that is out there, and start to take a stand on this issue. You are the equivalent of a person standing on the sidelines and watching a two year old play in traffic, and saying “Oh well, it’s up to the parents to decide. Maybe they have a good reason for letting their kid play in traffic.”

I do not believe that vaccination causes autism. If it did, there would never have been people on the spectrum before vaccination, and it seems that there may be some famous people on the spectrum from before vaccination programs were established.

That does not mean that I do not believe that vaccinations cannot be an environmental trigger. Maybe a vaccination can trigger autism in some individuals. I recall a decision that a mitochondrial disorder can be triggered, which in turn produces autism-like symptoms.

I am not prepared to shun vaccinations ‘in case.’ The odds of developing autism compared to the odds of developing polio in a place where it is endemic don’t seem to encourage one to avoid immunizations. Ultimately, everything comes with risks, and each of us has to choose what we’re willing to face – and I think my kids are really wonderful. I treasure who they are, and what I can learn from them.

Broken Link and others:

I do not, in this blog post or in any post or article on this site recommend that parents try lupron, HBOT, chelation, or any other invasive biomedical treatment. I have written articles on several of these topics (specifically chelation, HBOT, facilitated communication, etc.), which you’re welcome to peruse (of course!).

I have interviewed some of the DAN! reps, and do include their Q&A responses to questions, so that readers can see where they’re coming from and why they recommend the diets and supplements that they recommend. It was from one of those interviews that I was able to draw a statement from Thoughtful House in support of vaccinations.

I have also written a number of articles on gfcf and related diets, including articles on medical perspectives; concerns about lack of certain nutrients, etc.

That said, I don’t feel justified in suggesting that parents are lying about their children’s regression – or that their children have improved on certain diets or as a result of supplements. I have seen studies that suggest that specific supplements (fish oil, vitamin D, etc.) can make a positive difference, as well as studies that suggest the opposite.

I’m hoping this clears things up a little…?

Lisa (autism guide)

If vaccines steal the soul, what does Pertussis do? This disease is enjoying a “revival,” because so many parents are not vaccinating their children. My son (ASD) was vaccinated, and still got Pertussis, because the vaccine wears off after some years. He was 21 when he it, and the coughing was horrible! A baby or young child would not survive that disease. Do you really want to see a national epidemic of Pertussis?

Hi Lisa

As much as I respect your blog (and, yes, you are definitely doing very valuable work here for which I am grateful), still humouring the vaccine debate and wording your article the way you did, bears similarity to the way some autists still humour the refrigerator-mother theory (and yes, it is alive and well in some autism circles, funny how THAT one did not make it to the top ten autism possible causes, yet vaccines, time and again, does, despite test after test after test). What always gets me is how those moms that blindly believe in autism as a cause really, and honestly, have no idea about the scientific facts and research that has been done. Their need to justify their dislike of their child is so huge, vaccines have become the ideal black sheep. The timing is perfect, their wish for wanting back their “other” child (you know, the one with the soul) is justified. And they have a pretty blonde soccer mom/movie star to do their case, with as little a brain as they do. I look at this and wonder how they justify a simple thing like the fact that I did not get the MMR vaccination, yet I am as autistic as the day is bright. I guess that’s my disability: not getting social stupidity. Thank goodness for disability, I say.

So, Lisa, I’m sorry: get your facts straight, preach the right messages, support science and, please, if a top scientist say: we must still consider all things – it is a scientific fact, not a insinuation that vaccines may still be the possible cause of autism. THAT is the difference between scientists and professionals speaking vs. oprah-talk and disappointed socialite moms over cups of tea.

Personally, I blame those who are spreading misinformation for this mess (soon to be public health crisis?), and I don’t put Lisa in that category.

My child was perfectly normal in every way. A day after his 18 month vaccinations, he developed an ear infection. I suspect his immume system was down, he rec’d all the shots, and it pushed him “over the edge.” Regression of language, and other autistic behaviors soon followed. He is now 11, and still nonverbal. I did ABA, and he goes to a special needs school. He’s got a great personality, a relatively calm temperment, and an unfortunate disdain for sign language and pecs. I love him to pieces, but still wish he hadn’t gotten his shots that day long ago that put him on this path. Do I blame his vaccinations. . .yes. Did his vaccinations cause his autism. . .yes. Did I stop his vaccinations. . .no. I still believe in vaccinations. . .I just spread them out. All three of my kids are up-to-date, it just took much, much longer.

I didn’t mean to imply that Lisa was responsible for spreading misinformation. My “you” was plural. I should have said, “Youse,” or “Y’all.”

The fact is, vaccines were created to save children’s lives; many of those diseases have not been seen for so long, that we have forgotten that. People figure are so terrified of autism, that they will take their chances with Pertussis, diphtheria, rubella, etc.

Okay, so we all have our own opinion. I personally believe it is the mercury/thimerosal in vaccines that cause autism. Has anyone ever looked at the similarities between autism and mercury poisoning? That is all I needed to answer my question on what caused my son’s autism. We believe what we want to believe and so want our children to be better, that we will try almost anything to do it and surely never wanting to hurt our child in the least little bit. But, on the other hand, I am so happy to be a parent that cares so much for my son that I will do things to make him better, rather than be a parent that does nothing at all. If you really want to be upset at someone for hurting children, be upset at the government for forcing vaccinations that contain mercury into your body without even considering the effects. Don’t be upset at someone that just wants to share information that will let parents make their own informed decisions.

“That said, I don’t feel justified in suggesting that parents are lying about their children’s regression – or that their children have improved on certain diets or as a result of supplements. I have seen studies that suggest that specific supplements (fish oil, vitamin D, etc.) can make a positive difference, as well as studies that suggest the opposite.”

Once again, Lisa, you don’t have to call them liars to express that what they are saying doesn’t make sense and that people sometimes believe that something has happened when it has not.

You are like a neighbor mom standing on the sidewalk while a child plays naked in a busy street and saying, to the mom, “Shirley, do you know that Bobby is playing in the street and could get hurt?” and listening patiently and supportively while mommy says, “My DAN! doctor says it’s good for him to play naked in the middle of a busy street for one hour a day. He says he’s seen remarkable recoveries….” and then you say, “well, being the nice person that I am, I could never call you a liar. And far be it from me to doubt what a DAN! doctor recommends. And we all know that parents know best and we can’t interfere… So, I’ll just say, I wish you and Bobby the best…” and then you stand there and watch as the boy plays in the traffic.

Me? I’m going to go grab the kid and haul him out of the danger zone and call the authorities in order to protect the kid from a possibly well-meaning, possibly lying mom.

You don’t have to call them liars, Lisa Jo. You don’t have to call them liars.

One more time.

You don’t have to call them liars. You can still say, “look, I realize you believe that, but there is good reason to believe it’s not true.”

You are helping to keep children in harms way because you are more concerned with the parents’ feelings.

In the process of being so “nice” to the parents you are helping to abuse children who need someone to stand up for them.

Posting what antivaxers say about vaccines, “oh, well, there are alternative schedules, blah blah…” is stupid. Their ultimate goal is to plant seeds of fear of vaccines and seeds of fear of distrust of the authorities.

You are helping them plant those seeds of fear and you are helping to give credence to fear-mongers and ultimately you are helping to harm real live vulnerable children.

There is no reason to do that. The NYT has an editorial policy that supports vaccines. You can talk to them and figure out why that is… hint: it’s not because they are paid to say that.

Lisa, wake up before more kids are harmed. It’s not about mommies and their precious feelings, it’s about saving children from harm.

Just because, someday, I’d like to know what causes autism…that doesn’t mean I “dislike” my son the way he is.

I don’t believe my son is “soulless”. Sometimes I think he’s an angel. And I’m so tired of hearing about celebrities being quoted out of context. I’m not spending any of my time trying to figure out what a total stranger is thinking.

I don’t think my son is missing a personality. He’s non-verbal but, a couple of nights ago we had a great laugh together when he farted in the tub and made bubbles. I don’t want to change him, I just want to help him feel well enough to participate in his therapies and schoolwork.

The last time I checked, Goji Berry enemas were not on the DAN! Protocol for biomedical treatments.(haha) We have tried chelation therapy but, only because he tested high for lead and I won’t do it enough to make him ill.

I don’t feel misled or mislead. I am definitely not stupid.

I am sure there are many greedy lawyers and many greedy doctors out there trying to take advantage of parents and children with autism just to make a buck. However, I believe the greedy doctors, lawyers, pharmaceutical company executives and government officials who don’t want to get blamed for harming children and families in the first place add up to a far larger number. They invented greed.

I don’t believe vaccines cause autism. I think something in the vaccines is a possible environmental trigger. I know autism is genetic….both my children are on the spectrum and I believe, if my husband was a woman with a blog, he would sound like the Autism Diva…..

Every person with autism is different from the next. Isn’t that the whole concept of a “spectrum” disorder? Making broad generalizations isn’t beneficial to anyone trying to learn about or live with autism.

Ms. Clark –

I am guessing that your concerns for harm relate specifically to certain types of biomed such as intravenous chelation, HBOT, etc., and to avoiding vaccines altogether (and that those types of “treatments” are your “naked boy in the street”). If so, then of course I agree with you: these treatments are at best questionable and at worst harmful!

But so far as I’m aware, there’s nothing on this site that advocates such “treatments.” The articles on those subjects include citations and warnings (please do take a look).

On the other hand, I don’t think that GFCF diets and supplements such as fish oil or melatonin qualify as “doing harm” in the sense you’re describing – and from what I’ve read and learned, they do have at least the potential to help (when appropriately applied). Meanwhile, I’d certainly prefer that parents vaccinate their kids over time than not vaccinate at all.

Lastly – and here’s where we probably differ – I truly don’t know what is going on when parents say their child was fine on Monday, received a vaccination on Tuesday, got sick, and never recovered. I don’t know whether parents are simply wrong, whether they’re deliberately being misleading, or whether they in fact witnessed something significant.

Lisa (autism guide)

I want to add that I don’t let my son play naked in the street, either.

And, I’m not lying when I say this……I have gone for weeks at a time giving my son his supplements and seen improvement. I take him off the supplements and he regresses. I put him back on his supplements and he improves again. That is all the proof I need. I have also personally tried every supplement that has been prescribed for my son.

I don’t believe I am being overly emotional just because I’m willing to try vitamins and minerals, etc. I admit, I’m not a scientist. I trust my son’s doctor but, I do as much research on/reading about biomedical treatments as I possibly can.

Also, I haven’t put my family in the poorhouse, yet. We are no worse off than any other middle-class family in our area. And to top it all off, my husband and I are not getting a divorce because of the extra “stress” on our family. We are doing pretty well, thank you.

just curious Ms Clark – you sound like an authority on the subject – what do you do for a living???? Doctor…psychologist….perhaps??

last p.s……we did oral chelation. I would NEVER try IV chelation.

Namaste
LisaA

The problem I have with Jenny McCarthy is that she is promoting herself as a “autism” expert. I don’t really trust her any more than I trust any doctor who says they can “cure” autism….
Jenny alleviated her son’s GI symptoms..she did not cure his Autism.
If you observe her beautiful son, he still shows many Autistic characteristics.
GI problems are not symptoms for Autism.
Jenny McCarthy is promoting the GFCF diet as if she invented it. Believe me, it has been around a lot longer than Ms. McCarthy.
Ms. McCarthy does not impress alot of people except those as desperate as herself.
Do I have issues with her? Heck yeah!!
She has taken Autism and made it a “dirty” word.
Not in our house…
In our home, it is 5 children who function appropriatly at school, in the community and in private. This took alot of hard work and alot of therapy, and all with wheat and dairy.
Go figure!!!

Lisa the autism expert (not LisaA the one who called her son a “toxic train wreck” in a public forum),

“On the other hand, I don’t think that GFCF diets and supplements such as fish oil or melatonin qualify as “doing harm” in the sense you’re describing – and from what I’ve read and learned, they do have at least the potential to help (when appropriately applied). Meanwhile, I’d certainly prefer that parents vaccinate their kids over time than not vaccinate at all.”

I have never, not ever told parents not to try the GFCF diet. I have never, not ever, not once told them not to try melatonin or fish oil (though I find it amazing that the mercury phobes will go for fish oil because it will have some mercury in it, just like Genisoy bars have some mercury in them, just like chicken has mercury in it… just like everything has some mercury in it unless it’s been created in a lab to have no mercury in it… mercury is everywhere). I have never told parents not to try something that doesn’t go far beyond what is usually given to typical kids or what a reasonable doctor would recommend.

DAN! doctors are not reasonable doctors. Thoughtful house is a flaming scandal. I’m trying not to scream at you Lisa expert. I’m actually trying to be nice… but are you stark raving out of your mind???? Did you not try at all to find out what Wakefield and Krigsman are about? The information has been out there about them and what they are up to for a few years now. What they are doing to parents and children there is purely evil. I’m not exaggerating. They are exploiting parents and children in the most gross way and putting children at very serious risk with their stupid “scoping” and biopsying of poor little autistic kids.

I could write paragraphs on what I think of Krigsman and detail it all with facts about him and what he has said and what he has told parents and the same for Wakefiled. But you blithely ask them for an interview? Lisa! That is criminal. You need to do due diligence and not give these people credibility by asking them even so much as the time of day.

I’m not kidding here. It’s extremely serious.

You don’t have to say, “Hey! I recommend that you let some idiot knock your precious delicate child out and shove a tube up his rectum to a point that most doctors wouldn’t dare to go because of the dangers, and keep the kid knocked out so long that it increases the dangers of the anaesthesia killing the kid… so that they can look for measles that DON’T EXIST!!!!!!” (sorry, I’m screaming again)

You can do almost as much harm by acting as if these monsters are worth interviewing.

As for the other (toxic train wreck) Lisa. Parents who have already bought into the lie that this or that supplement will rewire kids’ brain (oh, and the ever so lovely Teresa Conrick believes in an expensive rip-off powdered rock supplement, that is sold by the train-car full for a few dollars, has done wonders for her daughter) are going to have expectations for what will happen when they take the kid off the supplement and put them back on.

This is why we have (everyone pay attention now) double-blind, placebo controlled studies. See… there’s this thing where humans are just very good at lying to themselves, Lisa, and Lisa.

No, seriously. Humans are just really good at attributing an improvement to something that they want to cause an improvement, hence we have homeopathy (water, just water, that cures everything by the dropper-ful).

Parents buy into whatever it is that is going to promise them an improvement. Their hearts go with it and once their hearts are involved the brain can go out the window.

As for the question about my background. I’m a mother. A mother of a vulnerable autistic child. I am a former believer in some weird biomed (years ago, not related to autism). I have a recent bachelors degree in psych, biopsychology emphasis, from UC Davis. I’m nearly 50 years old, my kid is an adult, and no I’m not jealous because people like LisaToxictrainwreck is bestest freinds with Jenny McIndigo and that she thinks her son is some kind of miracle example of the wonders of biomed.

LisaA also believes that Lyme disease causes autism, or she did. You can prove just about anything with quack lab tests.

Lisa expert, you could tell people that if they are buying into idiotic thieving quack laboratories that they are wasting their money and putting their kids in line for dangerous therapies…

The thing is, once the parents get sucked into biomed, someone is there to say, “but you haven’t tried IV EDTA yet!!! Dont’ give up!! What are you, some kind of neurodiverse freak? You need to do the Goji Berry Juice enemas!!!” There is always another thing… stem cells. Lisa….. STEM CELLS!!!!! How in the name of all that is holy are stem cells going to cure autism? Do you realize that they might not even be getting any stem cells, but just paying for a con job?

Dr. Bryson is being fair. We can’t honestly and scietificly take the question of vaccines as a possible environmental trigger off the table. I can respect the advice of someone who is fair and realistic more than the advice of someone who will outrightly deny the possibility of a connection. So Dr. Bryson is actually in a position to influence me to vaccinate my children more than Dr. Offit. As far as Jenny McCarthy and the soulessness of autistic children. I think it best not to work so hard to make such a strong emotional appeal to our audiences. My autistic son is definitely in possession of his soul!

“We respect parent’s choices when it’s not an issue of harm being caused to children. We don’t respect a parent’s choice to let their child play naked in traffic – we call the authorities.”

Two different things but hey, call the police and see where it get’s you. In essence, people are expecting this blog to be the police on what’s harmful or not? And then to make a stand one way or another? That would be the same as doing more than just your own opinion, as an example those who do or do not vaccinate, calling the police.

I am all for opinion’s and I give many of them, but to be that judgmental of what other parents choose for their kids is no business of mine less I was asked. And then, I’d have no idea if that child had heavy metal poisoning which would need chelating. My problem with this only is that no one seems to know the for sure source of poisoning and always assume it’s from vaccines. As for many of these exampled interventions, have a stat on how many parents choose this for their children? Much of it is expensive and not covered under insurance. As for vitamins, many have no side effects and guess what? Some disorder’s require vitamin shots, as my nephew does who has some protein disorder where he cant process it at all.

Now the topic was “Medical Experts Take Notice of Jenny McCarthy’s Autism Message”, not what this blog can police. So back on topic, Ms. McCarthy stated this Spring she planned to use chelation on her son, although she’s more big on diet in her interviews, her son ‘had’ autism. So according to her, it worked for her son. Many of her posted articles never reference anything noticed after a vaccine, including her child’s first seizure. If any soul disappeared from her child. one might think it’d have something to do when he stopped breathing due to a seizure and needed to be revived, than it having anything to do with autism.

I believe in vaccines for my child, and vaccines did not cause his autism, either. But I also believe vaccines are not for everyone and their is a choice. Since my son is up to date, when out breaks of measles or pertussis, I don’t worry. There was a generation of mother’s who demanded doctors save their children’s lives, and vaccines were created. Vaccines do and always have had side effects, as anything else in this would does. So for fear of autism and not to vaccinate, for some kids, autism can still happen as did my child.

From the article, Dr. Isabel Smith: “As for the continuing debate over vaccines and autism, she says the focus needs to shift from speculation to proven fact. “There has been so much emphasis on the potential link between vaccines and autism, and not enough attention to the fact that diseases like measles can be fatal for children who are not immunized. That is a proven fact,” she says.
“It’s a lot sexier and more interesting to talk about what we think is fact, than to talk about the things we don’t know. With autism, there is still so much we just don’t know.”

I wonder how many supplements and treatments Jenny McCarthy actually gave her son, whom she considered soulless.

I have a question for Ms. Clark, have you ever tried taking supplements, B12 injections, or any other types of biomedical treatments? That would be a great argument, if you objectively tried for example CLO, and did not feel or notice a difference in yourself. I would like to hear actual experience versus opinions.

I do notice a difference in my son since he started getting nutrition he could digest and absorb. He is 3 years old and ingests nutrients through a bottle. He takes Peptamen Jr. with Prebio, and then we started digestive system treatment.(antibiotics and antifungal) along with supplements and probiotics. I think sometimes these symptoms can be so subtle, one might not know there is a problem, especially a person with nuerodiversity.(I like that by the way) Makes sense considering the most intensive symptoms are psychsomatic. Anyway, I am not looking to make my son, or sons for that matter (both of my sons are autistic)not autistic, but am only trying to give them better quality of life; for example no constipation or other symptoms like I would any child.

It strikes me too coincidental that such a number of autistic people do have GI problems. A man I met at school encouraged me through a paper to Google brain-gut connection, this applies to many conditions, and I am not necessarily considering autism a ‘condition’. I do know one of my autistic sons is physically not able to chew and swallow food even if he wanted to, and physically not able to speak, he tries.

I do not think Jenny McCarthy knows anymore than any of us, and no where near as much as doctors and scientist know. Actually, we have one up on her, a big one; we know our autistic children have souls, as well as much potential. I really do not pay attention to anything she says. I would give any type of doctor more attention than her.

It strikes me too coincidental that such a number of autistic people do have GI problems.

And what would “such a number” be? Is it any greater than what’s found in NTs?

Everyone should keep looking and keep asking questions. We have to figure out causes if we want to find ways to restore those affected and deter Autism for our future generations. The current science needs to stop demonizing parents for raising ideas.

Only through dialogue and observation can we begin to study something in a scientific manner. Thank you Lisa for allowing the conversation to exist. My son has vaccine induced Autism. It is simply what is so. Autism is a description of a neurological condition which may have many causes.

It strikes me too coincidental that such a number of autistic people do have GI problems.

And what would “such a number” be? Is it any greater than what’s found in NTs?

Perhaps I should say Sensory and Gut Issues. I am speaking of such problems that prevent a person from eating. I do not know the number but I’m pretty sure it is definitely higher than found in NTs, considering sensory integration is not part of the issue those cases. Excuse me for not being more specific.

Autism is a description of a neurological condition which may have many causes.

I’m afraid this is even controversial. A text for health care providers with a copyright of 2009 classifies autism as a mental disorder. The definition given: “Autistic disorder (autism) is a syndrome of extreme withdrawal and obsessive behavior. It has its onset in infancy, and manifestations are apparent by the second or third year of age. Infant autism is also called pervasive developmental disorder. Autism is known to be highly heritable.” It is in the Mental Disorders Chapter following the Neurological Disorders and Conditions Chapter.

Frazier, M.S.; Drzymknowski, J.W. (2009). Essentials of human diseases and conditions. (4th ed.) St. Louis, Missouri: Saunders-Elsevier.

I do not know the number but I’m pretty sure it is definitely higher than found in NTs, considering sensory integration is not part of the issue those cases. Excuse me for not being more specific.

Feel free to engage in baseless and misleading speculation. It’s just a blog.

According to Dr. Geraldine Dawson, who is an expert in this area (and head of science for Autism Speaks), the percentage of autistic kids with GI issues is about 19% compared to about 12% among typical kids. I am sure this number is approximate, based more on her experience than on a national survey.

What’s more, when I interviewed Dr. Dawson we did not define the term “GI issues,” so of course that could mean anything from severe chronic illness to occasional loose stool.

In short, there does appear to be a higher level of GI problems among kids with autism. But that number does not appear to be massively higher than among NT kids.

AutismNB, PLEASE refrain from insulting other readers and posters. Your opinion is welcome, but when someone is expressing their opinion based on their knowledge there is no need to be nasty.

Lisa (autism guide)

No insult intended, and none rendered. You told us this is just a blog, and that it’s not important to be accurate. And Erin admitted she is speculating on the prevalence of GI issues.

Opinion based on knowledge would be most welcome.

AutismNB – I KNOW you know what I meant when I said this is just a blog!

Bottom line: neither I nor anyone else expects (or should expect) comments on a blog to be researched and referenced. People are sharing opinions, insights, ideas, frustrations, and resources.

They may be basing their comments on personal experiences, hearsay, or peer reviewed journals – but any and all of those sources are okay here. The point of the blog is to open the floor to different perspectives, so that people can hear those perspectives and engage in conversation as they see fit.

As you know, there are over 300 articles on this site, most of which ARE researched, sourced, cited, reviewed, etc. And, of course, you are welcome to include the URL of your website (where I know you publish science-based content) with your signature.

Lisa (autism guide)

That’s okay, I’m used to nasty. I’ve changed many diaper’s of a child with GI problems who has never been given a diagnosis of any type of GI condition, but cannot tolerate casein protein(causes massive congestion), and has responded well to a complete elemental medical food for GI-compromised children (Peptamen Jr. with Prebio). Point blank GI conditions, whether that of any type of nuerologically functioning individual should not be taken with a grain of salt-they should be addressed and treated, as noninvasive as possible. (Just my opinion)

Another point I was trying to make in the above post was that not all cases of GI conditions are recorded. I have two in my home, my other son used to get so constipated it would wake him up in the middle of the night. Once again, both are on the autistic spectrum. Not all autistic people are diagnosed with OCD either. But it is what it is…

AutismNB – I KNOW you know what I meant when I said this is just a blog!

I highly doubt you are able to peer into my mind. Could you tell the others what you meant?

They may be basing their comments on personal experiences, hearsay, or peer reviewed journals – but any and all of those sources are okay here. The point of the blog is to open the floor to different perspectives, so that people can hear those perspectives and engage in conversation as they see fit.

Is it acceptable to distinguish between, say, scientific findings and hearsay? Isn’t that where your ‘just a blog’ comment came from?

How do we separate the wheat of truth from the chaff of nonsense, if not by asking questions, s that we may better discriminate between established fact and wishful thinking?

I don’t know what kind of fiduciary relationship that Lisa Jo Rudy is supposed to have. I know that doctors are bound by rules not to harm people by wildly speculating about this or that.

I would think that since the NYT has bothered to crown her as “autism guide” that she has some kind of extra burden to actually say things that won’t hurt people, won’t hurt small, extremely vulnerable developmentally disabled people.

Though I don’t doubt that she has tried to be “fair” I think she has failed significantly by trying to embrace that lozenge shaped planet that doesn’t exist. By giving credence to people that she did not bother to investigate to find out if they deserved credence, she has pointed potentially gullible and grasping-at-straws parents to quacks and thieves who may have done serious harm to those kids.

As for “gut” issues. If you compare the “gut” issues between say, “autistic” kids and “CP” kids and “mentally retarded” kids you will see a pattern. Developmentally delayed kids have more constipation than typical kids, but even typical kids have a considerable amount of “gut” disturbances like constipation and diarrhea.

The “diarrhea” that the original Wakefield kids had was apparently, “overflow” diarrhea because the kids were backed up with constipation. This could be because they were also retarded or because they were generically “developmentally disabled” which puts them in a category of kids who have more constipation.

IF, that is a big IF the average mom “expert” would listen to the transcript of the omnibus proceedings they could hear all this explained by real experts.

MR kids just don’t learn when to go potty at the right time and so can get backed up and have overflow diarrhea.

The original Wakefield kids got “cleaned out” for their first scoping and felt fantastic and were practically cured of autism because they probably had not been non-constipated for years. The “illeal lymphoid hyperplasia” that Wakers tried to call autistic enteropathy or whatever he called it, is a normal condition that can be caused by….

oooooh….

measles????

No.

Constipation.

Further, the diarrhea and gut problems of some autistics may be linked to an underlying genetic disorder possibly not diagnosed, like Smith Lemli Opitz syndrome or Cornelia de Lange.

Further the constipation and diarrhea found in autistic kids and toddlers can very easily be explained by stress hormones (autistic toddlers can be very stressed by their inability to talk and by the demands placed on them by parents/siblings/daycare…).

Giving pro-biotics is probably fine. I don’t know of any side-effects of them. I think they are over-hyped, but I can’t imagine them doing a lot of harm.

I know that parents are giving yeast to their kids. Oh, yes, they are. They are giving yeast to their kids who sometimes are simultaneously on quack doses of “antifungals”. Yeast is a fungal… hmmmm.

Yeah, let DAN! quacks dose your kids with whatever they want to toxic antifungals? Go ahead. Yeast? Go ahead, we’re gullible here and we just sold grandma’s kidney, so we’re flush.

I went to the doctor today, for a check up. Got my flu shot two weeks ago… we talked for a long time. I need to get more exercise, but other than that I’m totally cool. I have significant amounts of anxiety from my own autism/Asperger’s but it’s like some people get used to having pain all the time, I’m used to living with a significant amount of fear and anxiety.

I don’t take pills for it. I’ve never taken anything for anxiety, but I do avoid situations that make me nervous if at all possible, that means I stay home alone a lot. I have had very serious depression in the past. I have taken antidepressents, but I’ve been off of Prozac for a couple of years and don’t seem to need it… I guess it’s debatable as to how much of the effect of Prozac is placebo anyway.

There is no reason for me to try out 9,000 different biomedical and “alternative” “treatments” for anything. My ASD kid is fine, happy as a clam. I run interference for that kid so that kid doesn’t get stressed out. Wish I had a mom like me! In fact I’m also caring for my aging mom and I’m the sounding board/advice giver for my NT kid and I have a few autistic friends of varying “functioning” who are dependent on me for some kinds of help. I go with them to doctor’s appointments, and make phone calls for them… that sort of thing.

I could easily say, “Look, if you are worried about your child’s symptom X, your worry is a symptom of a disease you have called “Z syndreme” and I suggest you try acupuncture, Rolfing, Pau d’Arco tea, Goji Berry Juice enemas, Threelac (because Jenny McYeasty gets a kickback from them), probiotic nose-spray (because it chelates), magnetic foot pads, angelic tuning forks (someone was selling these for autism), a far infrared sauna, IV disodium EDTA infusions, Garlic and Vinegar infusions (a favorite of famed biomed mom Christine Heeren-Zichitella), oh and don’t forget the tin-foil underwear.”

The problems with that scenario include that you didn’t complain of a problem. I told you you had a problem. I’m not a doctor. And only idiots give medical advice to strangers over the internet, and only other idiots take that advice seriously. My advice might cause you to waste perfectly good money. I might implant in your head that you have a problem when you didnt’ have a problem.

This is how quacks work. This is what “biomed” parents do to make themselves feel better, they say, “Oh, your son is staring? That’s yeastiness. Give him X, Y and Z and call me in the morning.” It’s C.R.A.Z.Y.

I do understand it. I used to really be into herbs and about anything you could find in a healthfood store, and massage and acupressure and reflexology and ….

I’m here to tell you that it’s 99% hype and trash and some of it is dangerous. It’s not for your babies.

My two formaerly normal healthy daughters were forced to receive NINE VACCINATIONS IN ONE DAY under the threat of the Child Protective Agency. I was warned that they would ‘declare medical neglect’ if I didn’t get there vaccinations up to date immediately, which I didn’t want to do–not because of autism, but because of the possibility of other side effects. The whole ‘vaccines cause autism’ theory seemed a little far-fetched to me at the time. Anyway, my 20 month old and my 9 month old both seemed perfectly normal before–my oldest was already talking in 3 word sentences, and my youngest was like a babbling laughing ball of sunshine. But then I took them to the local health department where they were given 9 shots each, one after the other within a 5 minute period. In the weeks that followed, my oldest daughter stopped talking. She went into a shell and didn’t start talking again for a year. My youngest daughter is six years old now and still isn’t potty-trained, she can’t converse and play with other kids appropriately, and will probably need our care her whole life. I don’t think anyone’s trying to say that the soul is literally stolen away from these kids. But this is the only way some parents can describe the drastic change that occurs in them, where one day their child seems like a happy jolly talkative youngster, and a month later they’re this silent, introverted kid who stares through other people, and has this impenetrable wall of phobias, sensitivities, and bizarre issues built around them. So taking the soul comments and twist them into this awful insult is really unfair.

It would be interesting to compare the above account with how normal the daughters were before and how they declined afterward with real world documentation.

What I have seen, and what happened in the UK was that for all the parents who had these dramatic stories, when push came to shove, none… not one… could back them up with simple documentation.

Parents in the omnibus autism hearing made all kinds of claims that were in contradiction to what they (the parents) were saying and what others were saying at that time when all the drama was supposedly happening.

People get swept up in hysteria. This is a fact. When the listeners to the “war of the worlds” radio show started freaking out that the world was being attacked by Martians in spite of the fact that the show kept saying stuff like, “this is a dramatization”… they were not lying, they were caught up in a hysteria.

Lots of parents thought their kids were sexually abused in the 1980s by various day care center-based sex/torture cults. Some of the big cases turned out to have NO BASIS IN FACT but there were sincere parents who believed that little Mary and Binky had been sexually molested by Mrs. X and Mr. Y.

Get real, Lisa. You don’t have to buy into the dramatic stories. You have no way of knowing who is lying, who is mistaken and who is insane.

So you take the cautious route and say, “I don’t think this fits with reality.”

As for the “soul-less” comments like that of Dr. Jerry Kartzinel and the “lacking personhood” comment from Dr. Tom Insel of the NIMH and the “kidnapped empty husk” comments of Portia and John Shetack/Iversen, they are unconscionable. No one would be allowed to even hint that any other group was without a soul, without a personhood, without a mind or personality, but it’s open season on autistics.

Let’s try this on for size. Parents who think they children were made autistic by vaccines are soulless. They lack personhood. They have no mind or personality. I can prove it. I have met some of them, and every one had this dull look in their eyes, the look of a person whose soul had been eaten by DAN! or CAN or AS. No really. They don’t quite qualify as humans. That means if one of them is sick you can let them die. They have no more human rights than a dog. Less than a dog, actually.

No one is going to stand for me saying that. I wouldn’t say it. But parents get to abuse their children by saying it. Parents get to abuse MY CHILD by saying it. But I’m not supposed to get upset about it.

it’s me again…LisaA (not the expert).

To Lisa Autism Guide: Thank you for being here and doing what you do. I appreciate the time and effort it must take you to cover so many topics in addition to homeschooling your son. It has helped me to be exposed to so many different voices. It is a shame that too many of the voices have become nasty and sarcastic. I hadn’t posted a comment in a long time. I often check in just to see what Sandy posts because I respect her no nonsense attitude. It will probably be a long time before I comment again.

To Ms. Clark: I did not call my son a “toxic train wreck”. I shared that he had tested high for lead and was being treated for that. Nothing that my son is going through could be considered abuse.

I cannot, for the life of me, understand why you feel the need to lash out at people just for having an opinion or having a different life experience concerning autism.

I also believe the Indigo Child stuff that Jenny McCarthy talks about is garbage. However, I share her opinion that more effort should be made to “green” vaccines.

Don’t shoot the messenger……Whether it’s Jenny McCarthy or Lisa Jo Rudy or any of the non-scientist moms like me who come here. You shouldn’t judge any person unless you’ve walked in his or her shoes.

NINE VACCINES IN 1 DAY~ you had a very bad doctor. No one can force you to vaccinate your child/ children. Parents do not go to jail if they choose not to or have their children taken away. What they go to jail for is not having a waiver and the public school denies entry, and the child is then truant w/o a valid excuse.
You were bullied by the doctor. You should be suing him, not the vaccine makers. Child protection would had laughed at the report.

But still, yes, 9 vaccines in one day could and most certainly would cause a reaction, to any child. The vaccine connection to autism however is not related to bad doctors over-jabbing children in one day. We’re talking about the normal recommended vaccines schedule.

You shouldn’t judge any person unless you’ve walked in his or her shoes.

Ia that the same as saying that anecdotes and hearsay are more reliable than scientific findings?

You know, there are very many choices out there for interventions and I believe I remember a blog here about these and about those who take advantage of the hopeful parent. This doesn’t only relate to the autism community, other disorders are also targeted towards the hopeful.
That aside. Any and many sites offer info related to, let’s say autism. None of us know all the answers, so none of us can really say for sure this or that. Even private speech or O.T can be dangerous. Kids also get away from parents and they drown. Much if it was not an intentional act, as was the boy who died in PA after chelation. It was not intentional nor was it due to chelation chemicals. It was due to a mistake in medicine. Human error. Early on, ABA was deemed cruel and torturous. DAN! doctors I believe truly are there to help.
Most all intervention choices can have side effects, however mainly those are few and what you more see as the side effect of any intervention is no progress as one was hopeful for. The greatest side effect probably is a smaller bank account. Added vitamins, change in diet, sure they can loose bone mass from lack of calcium but what does one think a person who is lactose intolerant does for this? If one does have yeast over growth, are you going to leave it untreated? If one does have nutrition absorbing issues, are you going to leave that untreated?

I don’t see too much productiveness going on, but Ms. Clark for some reason thinks Lisa needs to well, I’m not even sure. It’s really hard to follow what she writes. I personally think it’s disrespectful to come to a blog, read an offered topic and then attack that blogger, or blame those whose one’s opinion obviously is that they disagree with what other’s parental choices are. “qualify as humans” is offensive and serves no purpose but to be offensive. Nothing is listened to when the approach is as such.

Interventions are not illegal or child abuse. If you want to change these offered choices, you’re certainly in the wrong place. You should start then with Congress and the medical board, and the FDA. If you want your voice heard, put it where it’ll do good but attacking parents is simply out right wrong.

I don’t see how Ms. Clark is attacking parents. She’s expressing her opinion. And this is just a blog, not a court of law.

Ms. Clark, neither one of my sons with gut issues is are mentally retarded. The lower functioning or son who is affected in ways such as not being able to speak or eat is the closest to being considered mentally retarded by anyone experienced loose, mucusy, stools on a regular basis, however when we changed his formula his stools became more normal, not loose and no mucus. My son who experienced constipation is an Aspie he does experience anxiety, but whatever affects the digestive system or any other system affects it; which in my opinion is need of support.

For what it is worth, I do appreciate your insight on autism and other related/nonrelated issues, and your personal experiences which seems to be the purpose of this blog, but your name calling and stereotypes (lawyers, doctors, “gullable parents”) is very unproductive.

This is just a blog. Not everything has to be “productive”.

This is just a blog works both ways. Opinions can be expressed without being offensive. Parents deal with that every day and we don’t need to come to a blog for more of it. I share many of Ms. Clarks opinions however to direct it even generally at parents or providers is more than an opinion.

If you’re talking about Ms. Clarke’s post #53, she was asking an important question: if it’s OK to dehumanize children, then why not their parents? Ms. Clarke was merely turning around bio-med arguments so they also applied to parents. The name calling wasn’t serious, but the subject matter sure is.

Who has the right to compare dehumanizing to what parents consider right for their child? My nephew pretty much has to be on what a DAN! doc suggests, only he WILL die without it. Name calling isn’t serious? If it were a ’serious’ subject matter, name calling wouldn’t be used at all.

No one listens to this, no one really will read it. It wont sink in at all except that someone is not expressing very well and is offensive. Some one with such strong opnions really is is the wrong voicing area. No one listen when they’re talked down to.

This is just a blog. Not everything has to be “productive”.

You know ANB you are absolutely right. Keep on justifying calling all DAN doctors quacks, all lawyers greedy and money hungary; and all moms who are trying treatments for their children’s ailments gullable. We are really addressing these serious subjects matters by doing that. But I’m done arguing because that is not productive either.

As of now (10 pm EST on Saturday, October 25), I am requesting that comments on this post end. The conversation has become irrelevant and personal, and it’s time to call it quits.

Please note that any further posts will be deleted.

Of course, any and all commenters are welcome to comment, respond, and add to conversations on other posts. But please, please try to keep the conversation civil and respectful, even as you disagree with me or with one another.

I have NO desire to censor anyone, but will if we wind up jabbing at each other again.

Thanks so much for your cooperation.

Lisa (autism guide)

McCarthy is an idiot. She has done much harm to the autism community with her ignorant comments. Claiming her son was “cured” of autism by changing his diet was the limit for me. I wish she would shut up and go away.

VACCINE = INFECTION + ANTIBIOTICS = AUTISM

Jenny McCarthy is staunchly advocated toward revealing some truth to the world about possible causes of autism, despite the critics and naysayers. I applaud her for her efforts, her positive use of fame to promote awareness of this condition, and congratulate her for not becoming one of the brainwashed zombie-automatons that will listen to any provider of care. She has gone against the grain and is continuing to do so through shear force of will and against supposed “experts” (who cannot even begin to tell you what the cause of Autism is from incompetence, inaction, or fear of retribution from the medical and political communities).
I have read more substantial evidence on Autism links in the Nestle Nutrition Services Workshop Series than I have from these “experts”. I believe that current studies on Autism links and Vaccines fail to see the “whole picture”, as most studies focus on only one variable and then abandon their research. In Nestle’s Nutrition Workshop Series, Volumes 42 and 44 deal specifically with studies of Probiotics, Nutritional Factors, Intestinal Microflora, and Risk Assessments in the Food Chain of Children and correlate these results with high numbers of Autism cases. Here is what I have concluded from the numerous studies and in conjunction with Jenny’s research: Vaccines do not cause autism, but create secondary symptoms that lead to high levels of infection. At this point, Western Medicine practitioners prescribe antibiotics, which destroy the intestinal microflora and cause advantageous microflora (resistant to antibiotics) to flourish. This is why most children with Autism have high levels of Candida Albicans in their system, which is what Jenny was battling with by changing her son’s diet and adding vitamin supplements. She essentially was “starving” the advantageous Candida, while strengthening the beneficial Microflora that keeps the Candida to normal levels. Her son’s intestinal Microflora reached a natural equilibrium and allowed his nutrient-starved brain to once again develop.
Candida Albicans is highly dangerous to developing systems, especially the brain, leading to developmental delays, self-injurous behaviors, and mental deficiences.
No studies have been made to see how antiobiotics prescribed after infection may be linked to Autism. In their studies, researchers “throw out” the study participants who become ill. These ill study participants then seek medical care through antibiotics (which is why they are “thrown out” of the study and their data negated), which then wipes the beneficial intestinal microflora out and leads to the invasion of harmful microflora such as Candida. This is why Jenny’s treatment was so highly effective; in balancing the intestinal microflora to it’s original state, her son’s brain was able to use the proper proteins for brain development once again, coupled with vitamins and other supplements from Kirkman labs.
I feel that Jenny was correct in her research, treatment and determination, but is wrong in saying vaccines cause Autism. The extra step everyone is missing are the effects of the Antibiotics. Vaccines cause sickness in some children, those sick children then are given antibiotics, and the antiobiotics given in an already surpressed immune system from their infections causes harmful microflora to manifest into Autism.

Hanson, L.A., and Yolken, R.H., (1999). Probiotics, Other Nutritional Factors, and Intestinal Microflora. Nestle Nutrition Services; Lippincott – Raven.

Aggett, P.J., and Kuiper, H.A., (2000). Risk Assessment in the Food Chain of Children. Nestle Nutrition Services; Lippincott, Williams and Wilkins.

Why bring vaccines into question? Why not cell phones? Their use has been on the rise exponentially.

I would like someone to tell me why fluoride is not considered a threat and a cause of autism since it accumulates in the body?