CDC Media Event on Autism, Vaccines and Mitochondrial Disease: Your Opinion Invited
All of the doctors who took part in the event tried hard to agree with Dr. Gerberding, Director of the CDC, that there is no evidence of a link between mitochondrial disease, vaccines, and autism. But at the same time, they also made it quite clear that underlying (asymptomatic) mitochondrial disorders can make a child susceptible to stress-related neurological problems. And while "stress" can present itself as disease, environmental insult, or other trauma -- it can also present itself in the form of fairly typical reactions to vaccines.
For example, according to Dr. Edwin Trevathan, Director of CDC′s National Center for Birth Defects and Development Disabilities:
...children who have mitochondrial disorders or these genetic disorders can appear normal initially.What I take away from this is that if a child has an underlying, asymptomatic mitochondrial disorder, and then experiences a significant vaccine reaction (fever, for example, which is not uncommon), they stand a very good chance of having a serious neurological reaction. And that reaction is likely to look an awful lot like autism.But when placed under severe stress due to infections or vomiting, diarrhea, dehydration, fever, other sorts of stress like perhaps severe sleep deprivation or malnutrition they′re not able to ...compensate for their severe energy needs. And because the brain actually has such a high need for energy and utilizes a large amount of energy, when these children are under stress the brain is really the organ that tends to often suffer the most. And so, when they′re under severe stress, often for a variety of different reasons and the reasons can vary from child to child based on which severe source of stress happens first, they tend to have severe neurological deterioration and decompensation that′s manifested by a loss of normal neurological function. ...
And the type of loss of function that occurs is actually dependent upon what part of the brain is affected by the deterioration of function because of inadequate energy supplies. ... children that have severe problems with the cerebral cortex of the gray matter of the brain often have seizures and have poor responsiveness and can then often have severe problems with language and cognition and sometimes also social behavior.
The children who have mitochondrial disorders even though they can appear normal initially are actually somewhat predestined to have a regression of neurological function when placed under stress. ...And although most children with mitochondrial disorders do not have autism they have other neurological manifestations such as severe epilepsy or severe problems with movement, the one thing they tend to have in common is that they′re normal appearing in spite of their underlying mitochondrial disorder until they exhibit signs of the disease when they′re placed under severe stress.
Of course, we still don't know what percentage of children with autism had or have underlying mitochondrial disorders. And if the vast majority of American children with autism receive vaccines at birth which cause stress, it would seem that any mitochondrial problems would become evident right away (and not when the child turns two or three).
Still, even with so many questions unanswered, it does seem likely to me that Hannah Poling's case has turned up an important issue for consideration. Even if mitochondrial disorders combined with vaccine reactions underlie only a small number of autism cases, surely this is a problem with a solution -- a solution that could be found with appropriate research and funding.
Do you think I'm reading this transcript correctly? Is the CDC both stating and denying that children with an underlying mitochondrial disorder could develop autism as a result of vaccine reactions? Or is it their point that vaccines, in and of themselves, don't directly cause either mitochondrial disease or autism? Either way -- is Dr. Gerberding splitting hairs, or making an important point?
Comments
I think the problem right now is that we don’t know. We don’t know many details at all. We are waiting for some more details to be made public. Unfortunately, even then we may not know as much as we would like.
In this information vacuum, too many people and groups are trying to fill the void with speculation and politics. Right now, that is very irresponsible.
It’s actually recommended that people with Mitochondrial do get vaccinated at regular schedules and not wait to get vaccinated with a catch-up vaccination which means more vaccinations at once to make up. Not getting vaccination could cause stress. At birth they don’t give nine shots at once.
Welcome to the dark side Lisa. We have been waiting for you to join us for awhile.
Thanks for writing this and being frank. Its time for everyone with a child on the spectrum to stand up, take notice and act. (Not telling you how.)
Thank you.
Lisa,
I think you are beginning to get it. It took you long enough.
You ask some very important questions, but to add to your quandry, simply Google – mercury mitochondria – or – mercury mitochondria autism – and see if you don’t have some additional questions to ask.
If you watched the Poling’s press conference on March 6, you will also have heard Dr. Pohling explain that Hannah’s mother has the same “knick” in one gene that can predispose a person to mitochondrial vulnerabilities. He also noted that this vulnerability had not resulted in neurological damage in Mrs. Pohling, an attorney and nurse. The parents also noted that there was no clinical or laboratory testing to show that Hannah had the mitochondrial impairment BEFORE her vaccinations.
Finally, Dr. Pohling, a Johns Hopkins trained neurologist, stated that he felt the mitochondrial impairment would be found to be “far more common than some people would have you believe.”
Looking forward to you “post Google” questions, and thanks for taking this on.
There is catch here, though, mom-on-the-spectrum.
There is no suggestion that this particular case (or issue) relates in any way to mercury, or to the measles vaccine (leaky gut, etc.). There is also a significant likelihood that any harm actually set off by vaccine reactions could equally well have been set off by, say, a bad bout of flu.
In other words, I don’t know that this case or its aftermath supports either the thimerosal or the MMR theories in any way. Nor do I have the sense that eliminating vaccine reactions would eliminate autism caused by an underlying mito disorder — because virtually everyone will have a “stress” reaction sooner or later.
The fact that Hannah’s mom has a similar genetic disorder but no autism may, in fact, just be a matter of luck.
Lisa (autism guide)
I gave you too much credit last night, Lisa. Sounds like you are fading back into your coma.
OK, “Itolduso” — perhaps you can connect the dots for me. Here’s how I understand this case:
1. underlying mito disorder can be set off as a result of “stress” such as fever;
2. vaccines can cause fever;
3. vaccines can be the stressor that creates the fever that sets off the mito disease;
4. mito disease can cause neurological issues that are, to all intents and purposes, the same thing as autism.
Where, in that logical sequence, do thimerosal and/or measles virus fit in? From what I can see, this is yet another completely separate issue!
Lisa (autism guide)
Thanks for asking, Lisa. Mr. Kirby has done an outstanding job of connecting the dots for you. Here you go:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/the-next-big-autism-bomb_b_93627.html
If I understand where you’re going, you’re referring to David’s statement: “One theory currently in circulation about what happened to Hannah and other children like her, is an apparent “triple domino effect.”
So far as I can tell, there’s no name or research connected to this theory — just “theorists.” It’s an interesting theory, but at this point that’s all it is.
In my opinion, the issue that has really been raised with Hannah Poling (and has been raised over and over again by GenRescue and many others) is — why are we vaccinating the way we are, and is there a better, safer way??
IMHO, the CDC could and SHOULD take a very close look at the vaccine schedule and vaccine components. Clearly, there are and will always be risks inherent in vaccinations (if there weren’t, there’d be no vaccine court!). But there is certainly no good reason to just stand stubbornly and insist that “this is the way it is, it is the best way, and we will not be moved!”
Lisa (autism guide)
to the poster who said you don’t get nine shots at birth – hannah didn’t get nine shots – she received vaccines for nine diseases – every 6 month old on schedule gets vaccinated for 9 diseases at the well-baby check up. I think that they need to investigate what the actual triggers are…of course, the hep b might not be enough stress…but receiving three live virus at once MMR (sometimes plus the chicken pox) could conceivably push a child over the edge after living with this disorder for several years…also, docs routinely administer vaccines to mildly ill children – again – too much stress. we need, now more than ever, a study of vaccinated vs. never vaccinated children. ONe of the people at this meeting brought up that it might be our diet (corn specifically) – we need to rule in vaccines or rule them out. NOW. do the study so we know where to focus our resources.
Gobbledygook and double-speak….yet again. CDC acts “astonished” that we question how “necessary” and “safe” and “effective” vaccines are while simultaneously assuring us there’s no plausible connection. Once again, why not compare autism rates to those in never-vaccinated populations? Because they already know the answer, of course. Every time a study demonstrates that vaccines are the trigger, they either tweak the numbers or summarily ignore the study. Why? (Most of us are smart enough to know, by the way.)If this one case is causing this degree of uproar, just imagine what would happen if they came clean. And imagine how many other singular, vested interests would be automatically implicated. But thanks for asking the question, Lisa. Keep it up.
I have no problem with saying that a kid with this condition who was exposed to mercury will develop autism. But I do have a problem with saying that is what ALWAYS happens. One case does not ever equal all cases.
Just to add something- Hannah’s parents stated the 9 vaccines were due to catch-up’s of missed vaccines. I also have not read any where yet just what each of these vaccines actually were. It is false to say that every 6 month old get’s 9 vaccines- mine didn’t for one however the CDC lists 6 to 18 month age recommendations and yes, if you count there is 9 there however, the flu and Hep A are not requirements to enter public school. They group these zones in a number of months, giving the opportunity to spread them out. The MMR also is not give at 9 months old. The age range is 12 months to 18 months and unless you view every single persons vaccines records, there is no way of knowing with that zone when each person had gotten that vaccine or any for that matter.
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/recs/schedules/downloads/child/2008/08_0-6yrs_schedule_pr.pdf
Here is the link to the CDC recommended Vaccine schedule it would be possible, and within the recommended time frame, to give a child 9 vaccines (with only one triple shot) at age 6 months. Flu shot, Hep B, Rota, DtAP (three in one), HIB, PCV, IPV.
Also – EVERY time I was in my HMO doctor’s office they always checked to see what shots we were due for. If there were some coming up within a week or two, they gave them to my son at that sick baby visit. At the time I thought this was helpful, since I didn’t get a lot of time off work for well baby visits and I was also told it wasn’t a problem giving my child the shots even though he was about to start another course of antibiotics for whatever illness he was currently fighting.
I’m no doctor, but that sounds like stress to me.
Also, it may be of interest to note, that after his diagnosis of autism (regressive autism) we did genetic testing and turned up a “mitochondrial dysfunction” which back in 2000 our doctor hadn’t a clue what that meant.
How rare are we?
Moira
Just to follow up – the flu vaccine is indeed required for pre-school entry in NJ and is on the table during the current legislative session for Ct and NY. Hep A is on the table for CT – once the CDC recommends a vax for everyone – there is a lag time while each state’s legislature works it into the public health law for school entry. You’ve got to give them a little time to do this – the flu recommendation and Hep A were just revised. if the state can afford it, it will be required for school in the next couple of years.
It’s possible to get 15 vaccines in one day, for I have read those claims as well. 15 or 9 is not the norm for most children no matter where you live nor the CDC’s recommendations. These amounts are what certain doctors are doing on their own. Also, it is a doctor who gives a vaccine to a sick child (not the CDC) however a parent would still have had the choice to say no and to wait until that child was not sick.
The Flu vaccine does not go into law effect until Sept. 2008 and we’re not talking current laws. Those laws were not in effect at the time of Hannah’s case nor do we know for sure her parents were pro or anti vaccine people.
My question is this – why does the CDC think it is ok that a child might get 15 vaccinations on one day? Clearly that is a possiblity, how is that ok?
When I have time, I will be happy to post the exact vaccines my son got along with the antibiotics he was taking at the time. And I can show you that he was fully vaccinated at 12 months – which included the MMR. Why was my doctor on such an excelerated schedule? I don’t know. Why didn’t my doctor advise me to wait until my child was well – because the CDC had no such recommendations. There was no question of vaccine safety, in fact when we did question it later, we were yelled at.
Is it my fault for not questioning my doctor? Is it my doctor’s fault for not questioning the CDC? Or is it the fault of the agency who recommends the shots?
Moira
The CDC should, but doesn’t over look what each doctor does unless it’s reported. We all know (or at least some of us know) many doctors prescribe meds for our kids that are not even approved for them nor studied for kids. That also has nothing to do with the CDC, unless someone reports it and it’s side effects.
Many doctors, as well as DAN! doctors, have their own pre-made schedules of what they think is best, regardless of the CDC.
As for the MMR, it’s recommended by the CDC between 12 and 15 mths (just prior to 18 mths) there is no true specific age required so yes, within a 3 months time frame, one should ask about a better time to vaccinate if a child is presently ill.
The real issue isn’t the CDC at all. It’s really bad doctors and for whatever reason, they’re not offering parents a choice when there is a choice. One theory could be all these doctors given vaccines while a child is already ill or on an anti biotic and the relation to autism rates.
Hannah’s parents stated 9 vaccines due to catching up, they did not say vaccines that contained 9 diseases. chances are with 9 vaccines as the parents stated, it was well over 9 actually diseases.
at age 6 months. Flu shot (cant include it, no way to know who got it) Hep B, (between 6 and 18 mths) Rota (this one is new and Hannah probably never had it) DtAP, HIB, PCV, IPV (between 6 and 18 mths)
so in reality, a child for sure at 6 mths would get DTaP, Rots, Hib and PCV. Also, reading the small print on the CDC web site has some interesting things about the times vaccines are given.
You need to read David Kirby’s latest article on the on the Huffington Post and learn about the vaccine safety teleconference. You also need to cover and report to us on the vaccine
safety meeting scheduled for April 11 in Washington, DC. There is much important news to be reported on the autism/vaccine issue.
Apparently stating that there is a connection and then immediately denying there is a connection is the new policy.
On CNN this weekend Julie Gerberding did just that. She admitted their was a link, explained the link and then denied the link! It is totally crazy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDD7wmQ2yYk
We need congressional hearings to make these people tell the truth under oath.
My daughter had a mitochondrial disease and seemed fine until after her first vaccines..we then noticed a change in her. we had her seen by the best neurologists in the state and they still couldn”t figure out what was wrong. She passed away last yr at 3years old….Don’t tell me there not some type of connection between vaccines and mitochondrial diseases…something happened!
Looking back we now see that our child reacted to many of the vaccines he was given. We were told by the pediatrician that they were mild “normal” reactions. Fever, hives, rash and odd behavior…. with each vaccine the intensity increased. The reaction didn’t always happen with in a day or two of the vaccine as one might imagine but typically 10-15 days after the vaccine was administered. Our child is three now and yes he does have Autism.
I think the information packets (about the vaccines and reactions) that are handed out ot parents (at the dr office) should be revised help parents know that the reaction may not happen with in 48hrs of the vaccine as in our case. If we had a better understanding of what was happening we could have and should have been guided to us an alternative vac schedule.